How to wire a GFCI outlet

[Huff747]

You are correct, that looks like it is wired as a half hot switched receptacle.

Without knowing where the other ends of each wire go it is hard to say for sure. Unfortunately, I can only see the wiring in 3 of the 4 wire nuts. You have one for the Reds, Whites, and grounds. I'm guessing the 4th one is for the Blacks.

The issue I see is that in a half hot switched receptacle, the reds should not be tied together. Normally the feed cable will use the neutral and black. On the cable to the switch, the black is tied to the feed cable and the red is tied to the switch receptacle. The black and red from this cable are then connected to the switch.

While it is possible that the installer had other intentions in mind, such as having each receptacle on separate circuits, I can't confirm that and it definitely isn't how I would recommend doing it. It does make me say that you should be very careful in there since it may be fed by two breakers, one with power on the red the other on the black.

I would make a concerted effort to determine where each end of that cable go and try to determine the installers intent. Sorry I can't be of more help!

Thanks.

Perhaps I'll just avoid that outlet. I had another outlet about 4 feet away that only had 1 wire with black, white, ground that I have already converted to GFCI. I was just hoping to be able to convert and use both but maybe I'll just act like this one doesn't exist unless somebody else chimes in with a solution. I have no clue how to track down where the wire may go, everything around it, the floors above and below are finished and I checked a couple other outlets in the room and none of those have contained red. And the only switches currently in this room control the ceiling fan and light separately.

I kind of suspect at one point it was switched as the notes on the breaker box for the entire house are very detailed and seem to indicate that several outlets throughout the house are switched but since we purchased the house there isn't a single outlet we've found that actually is switched. All switches are accounted for with ceiling lights and fans and all outlets (unless there's one we've not used in the 4 years) have always been on.

 

[Brew12]

Thanks.

Perhaps I'll just avoid that outlet. I had another outlet about 4 feet away that only had 1 wire with black, white, ground that I have already converted to GFCI. I was just hoping to be able to convert and use both but maybe I'll just act like this one doesn't exist unless somebody else chimes in with a solution. I have no clue how to track down where the wire may go, everything around it, the floors above and below are finished and I checked a couple other outlets in the room and none of those have contained red. And the only switches currently in this room control the ceiling fan and light separately.

I kind of suspect at one point it was switched as the notes on the breaker box for the entire house are very detailed and seem to indicate that several outlets throughout the house are switched but since we purchased the house there isn't a single outlet we've found that actually is switched. All switches are accounted for with ceiling lights and fans and all outlets (unless there's one we've not used in the 4 years) have always been on.

With electricity, I prefer not to guess so please don't take this as a call to action.

What I expect is that there was an attempt made to have the outlet turned on and off with the ceiling fan light. Either it wasn't done correctly and never worked or they decided they no longer wanted the light to be switched and didn't properly switch it back.

 

[RamsReef]

Let's bring in @Paul B and @Ramasule since they have more residential experience. I'm an industrial guy so they may prove to be more helpful.

0 residential.
Did you forget that I am a protection specialist? I'm in the middle of testing a 411L.

In fact, I almost threw up in my mouth when I looked at the current residential code, as I want to reno my basement. Combination arc fault / ground fault breakers?? I can't run my tesla coil on those!

 

[Brew12]

0 residential.
Did you forget that I am a protection specialist? I'm in the middle of testing a 411L.

In fact, I almost threw up in my mouth when I looked at the current residential code, as I want to reno my basement. Combination arc fault / ground fault breakers?? I can't run my tesla coil on those!

Doh!!! Sorry!

 

[RamsReef]

I went to replace one of my outlets in my home office and when I opened it up (after breaker was off) and I found this. 2 wires coming into th box with white, black, red, ground. And the tab has been removed which I think would make this a switched receptacle except we've lived in the house for ~4 years and this outlet is not tied to any switch, both outlets have always been on. The only 2 switches in the room are for the light and ceiling fan. Can I just remove the red wire from the wirenut to the receptacle, leave the wirenut on the pair of red wires coming in and wire the outlet with just the black, white and ground?

Thanks for any info

Thats just a split receptacle, two 15 amp circuits. Common in kitchens and the like. You have 240 wired to that outlet technically, that's why the tab is broken. If you want GFCI on both circuits you will require 2 receptacles.

 

[RamsReef]

Figure F3
https://www.esasafe.com/assets/files/esasafe/pdf/Flash_Notices/14-02-FL.pdf

https://diy.stackexchange.com/quest...e-two-split-receptacles-with-gfci-receptacles

 

[Huff747]

Thats just a split receptacle, two 15 amp circuits. Common in kitchens and the like. You have 240 wired to that outlet technically, that's why the tab is broken. If you want GFCI on both circuits you will require 2 receptacles.

Thanks for the info and the links. Flipping one breaker kills power to both top and bottom outlet so is it two circuits? I guess I can wire it up like the diagram and give it a shot. May do a test run before I cut the wall for a 2 gang box. Or I may stick with avoiding that outlet altogether for this.

Thanks again.

 

[RamsReef]

Flipping A breaker kills power to top or bottom. The two breakers should be stacked ontop of each other. You will need to flick 2 tabs (they may be tied together)

 

[Brew12]

Flipping A breaker kills power to top or bottom. The two breakers should be stacked ontop of each other. You will need to flick 2 tabs (they may be tied together)

I don't think that is what he has. I think this is a failed attempt to make one of them switchable

 

[Huff747]

Yeah, I don't know what I have. I flip one breaker and neither outlet works. The breaker directly above this one in the box is a separate room. I have one of those 2 tab breakers in my box so I assure you this isn't one of the two tab breakers, just one breaker that appears to be killing power to both outlets. So I think that supports my avoid this outlet because I have no clue what's actually going on concept.

 

[RamsReef]

Take a picture please of your panel box please, and point to the breaker.

 

[RamsReef]

I don't think that is what he has. I think this is a failed attempt to make one of them switchable

You don't need a 3wire conductor to make a switched outlet, you would see 2 x 2wire.

If you have a multimeter look at my profile picture, that is what I want you to do.

It's called the @Paul B 208 volt test.

 

[Brew12]

You don't need a 3wire conductor to make a switched outlet, you would see 2 x 2wire.

If you have a multimeter look at my profile picture, that is what I want you to do.

It's called the @Paul B 208 volt test.

Per code you would need a 3 wire since you are required to carry the neutral. The typical way would be to use the black to carry the hot to the switch, then use the red to get the hot from the switch back to the receptacle. I just can't figure out why they would tie the reds together. That part makes no sense to me.

 

[RamsReef]

Per code you would need a 3 wire since you are required to carry the neutral. The typical way would be to use the black to carry the hot to the switch, then use the red to get the hot from the switch back to the receptacle. I just can't figure out why they would tie the reds together. That part makes no sense to me.

No, you would pigtail the hot up to switch leg 1, connect the white to switch leg 2 and wrap it with a layer of black tape to identify it as current carrying wire, and bring that wire down to the other side of the outlet.

Connection as follows
Outlet, Broken Tab Brass
Home Run Black -> Outlet Bottom Brass and Switch Wire Black
Home Run White -> Outlet Silver (Non Broken Tab)
Switch Run Black -> Switch Leg 1
Switch Run White(Tape black) -> Switch Leg 2
Outlet Top Bras -> Switch Run White(Tape black)

 

[Huff747]

Take a picture please of your panel box please, and point to the breaker.

I will do that when I get back. Since my last message I've left town for yearly Labor Day camping trip. Be back late Sunday. Thanks again for all the info.

 

[Huff747]

I owed a few pictures of my panel so here they are:

Full panel shot:

Closer shot pointing to the breaker in question:

And for what it's worth the description that was printed for the panel. I tried to write office as what they seem to be referring to as a Living Room is an office:

 

[Brew12]

I owed a few pictures of my panel so here they are:

Full panel shot:

Closer shot pointing to the breaker in question:

And for what it's worth the description that was printed for the panel. I tried to write office as what they seem to be referring to as a Living Room is an office:

Well, that confirms we are dealing with an attempt to have switched outlets. I can't help but wonder if the fact they don't work is related to the electrician spelling "lite" instead of light!

 

[jimsreef17]

That is a half switched outlet. If you do g have a switch controlling it, if has probably been spliced constant in the box where your switch is for the ceiling light/fan. You can remove the red wire between the wirenut and receptacle. Replace the receptacle with one that doesn't have the tab removed or a GFI whatever you want to do. You can also bring that red wire from the receptacle and splice it with the blacks if you want to keep that receptacle.

 

[RamsReef]

Don't hate the player @Brew12 hate the game!

Neutrals
"
When wiring lighting circuits supplied by a grounded general-purpose branch circuit, the 2011 NEC now requires you to provide a neutral conductor at nearly every switch point [404.2(C)]. The purpose for this is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting control devices, such as occupancy sensors. For many such devices, you must provide standby voltage and current at the switch.
"

Changed in 2011 lol.

 

[JRhymer349]

How do you replace an existing outlet with a gcfi?