Hydros Owners: how happy are you long term?

[Joe31415]

The only mode I use is one that turns off the skimmer for 4 hours. I just click on it in the app to trigger it

The entire point (well, part of the point) of the 0-10v input is so you don't have to do that. Sometimes it's nice not to have to pull up the app to do something easy like that. Especially since my phone isn't always near me when I'm right there. In those cases, I just pull the plug for whatever I want turned off and then (try to) remember to plug it back in later.

I just checked and the exit delay function may be your issue. This is from the online manual here

I originally left it at 0:00 since that's supposed disable the timer, but I also tried 20 minutes. Didn't work.


Also, another thing I've been noticing. Ever since I pulled the tunze ATO and started using the Hydros' ATO, the water level is all over the place. As of right now, I don't know if the ATO or the AWC is the culprit but from time to time I'll notice the water level is the top of the sensor instead of in the middle. That is, instead of roughly between the two bumps, the entire sensor will be underwater.

 

[n2585722]

The entire point (well, part of the point) of the 0-10v input is so you don't have to do that. Sometimes it's nice not to have to pull up the app to do something easy like that. Especially since my phone isn't always near me when I'm right there. In those cases, I just pull the plug for whatever I want turned off and then (try to) remember to plug it back in later.


I originally left it at 0:00 since that's supposed disable the timer, but I also tried 20 minutes. Didn't work.


Also, another thing I've been noticing. Ever since I pulled the tunze ATO and started using the Hydros' ATO, the water level is all over the place. As of right now, I don't know if the ATO or the AWC is the culprit but from time to time I'll notice the water level is the top of the sensor instead of in the middle. That is, instead of roughly between the two bumps, the entire sensor will be underwater.

On your ATO do you have a minimum on time set? The pump will run that long regardless of the sensor. I use a dosing pump for ATO and a float switch and have had no issue with the Hydros controlling the ATO. At 43 ml a minute it takes at least 2-3 minutes to get a full indication. I also have a minimum off time of 30 minutes setup. So it will have to wait at least that long to do another top off. I also have a maximum on time of 5 minutes set but like I said the pump only has a 43ml a minute rate so that is only 215 ml every 30 minutes that it can use to top off. If you are using the Hydros ATO pump your times would be seconds instead of minutes like mine.

 

[Joe31415]

On your ATO do you have a minimum on time set?

I don't even know how I'd find out anymore. This was all so unnecessarily complicated to set up. There's no ATO output because of course there isn't. That would make sense. There's an "Advanced ATO" section buried way at the bottom of the AWC output (naturally, there's where one would expect to find ATO settings). The slider for that is set to off.

 

[n2585722]

I don't even know how I'd find out anymore. This was all so unnecessarily complicated to set up. There's no ATO output because of course there isn't. That would make sense. There's an "Advanced ATO" section buried way at the bottom of the AWC output (naturally, there's where one would expect to find ATO settings). The slider for that is set to off.

Set it to on for the advanced setting to show. It is the same on the regular ATO output. In fact most of the outputs have those settings but you have to enable advanced settings to get to them.

 

[FishyFishFish]

I’m not sure why Hydros assume there is no demand for physical switches. 0-10v is a workaround for those with the Wave Engine or Control 4, but there are no similar options for users of X3, XS or Control 2 as far as I am aware.

It would be nice if they could produce some form of breakout switch box (that connects via the command bus?) for these controllers.

 

[n2585722]

I’m not sure why Hydros assume there is no demand for physical switches. 0-10v is a workaround for those with the Wave Engine or Control 4, but there are no similar options for users of X3, XS or Control 2 as far as I am aware.

It would be nice if they could produce some form of breakout switch box (that connects via the command bus?) for these controllers.

Anything on the command buss would be considered another controller. In the other systems it was main control and modules which still had to have a microprocessor in them. Hydros decided to make each module a controller also. That is the only difference. I added float switches to sense ports so you could also add a regular switch if you wanted. So I have two float switches hooked to each sense port on two X2 controllers.

 

[FishyFishFish]

But to me, that is the problem. They are so insistent that ‘everything needs to be a controller’ that they are introducing artificial limitations to the system.

If I use the sense ports on a XS, then the whole controller will be used up for 4 buttons, which seems ridoculous. And if I am correct, you can’t trigger modes from the sense ports.

 

[fragit]

Do you need a wave engine to control pumps with the control 4?

 

[n2585722]

Do you need a wave engine to control pumps with the control 4?

It depends on the pump. The control 4 will control them if the pumps have a 0-10v input for control. The WaveEngine will drive some pumps directly. It can also control Ecotech MP series pumps if the WaveEngine has a ETM module installed.

 

[n2585722]

But to me, that is the problem. They are so insistent that ‘everything needs to be a controller’ that they are introducing artificial limitations to the system.

If I use the sense ports on a XS, then the whole controller will be used up for 4 buttons, which seems ridoculous. And if I am correct, you can’t trigger modes from the sense ports.

That is the point if there was a module it would still have to have the same microprocessor to talk to the CAN buss that the Hydros uses so It would still cost them the same amount to make a module as it would a controller. So even if they made a module only it would be at least around $169 like the X2 and XS.

 

[FishyFishFish]

That is the point if there was a module it would still have to have the same microprocessor to talk to the CAN buss that the Hydros uses so It would still cost them the same amount to make a module as it would a controller. So even if they made a module only it would be at least around $169 like the X2 and XS.

Well that is a design flaw IMO.

The current system on 3 out of the 4 controllers relies solely on the app forcontrol. Whilst you can DIY something to plug into a sense port they don’t sell any push button or toggle switches. And even if they did, as previously mentioned, you would use up a sense port for each switch (and I still believe that you wouldn’t be able to switch modes that way).

Sometimes when I want to feed, I can’t be bothered to find my phone and open the app; how much easier would it be to have a switch, by my tank, that I can just press?

Automation is supposed to make life easier, not harder.

 

[jrill]

Well that is a design flaw IMO.

The current system on 3 out of the 4 controllers relies solely on the app forcontrol. Whilst you can DIY something to plug into a sense port they don’t sell any push button or toggle switches. And even if they did, as previously mentioned, you would use up a sense port for each switch (and I still believe that you wouldn’t be able to switch modes that way).

Sometimes when I want to feed, I can’t be bothered to find my phone and open the app; how much easier would it be to have a switch, by my tank, that I can just press?

Automation is supposed to make life easier, not harder.

So why don't you purchase a break out box and switch from one the two folks that sell them?

 

[FishyFishFish]

So why don't you purchase a break out box and switch from one the two folks that sell them?

Because they don’t work with the Control 2, XS or X3.

 

[fragit]

It depends on the pump. The control 4 will control them if the pumps have a 0-10v input for control. The WaveEngine will drive some pumps directly. It can also control Ecotech MP series pumps if the WaveEngine has a ETM module installed.

Great! I use Tunze and thought that I could hook them directly but wasn’t sure from retailer description

 

[fragit]

It depends on the pump. The control 4 will control them if the pumps have a 0-10v input for control. The WaveEngine will drive some pumps directly. It can also control Ecotech MP series pumps if the WaveEngine has a ETM module installed.

I ordered the control4 starter kit last night. As I said above I use Tunze pumps. I also ordered a quad cable and adapter cables for two of the 4 pumps I use in my DT. If I understand the description correctly and the capabilities of the controller I should be able to run a total of 8 Tunze pumps with the two 0-10v inputs correct?

 

[Joe31415]

Because they don’t work with the Control 2, XS or X3.

I've spent hours upon hours trying to make them work with the Wave Engine (which has 0-10v Input) and it's a nightmare.

My current issue with the Hydros system is that all the hardware is there, but the software is a mess and needlessly complicated. It's like they keep adding features but instead of making them all work together, it's one big spiderweb of workarounds and nothing is logical, it's all things you just have to *know*.

Case in point.
-You want a buton to turn an individual device on or off. Add the button as an input then tell the device to watch that input and react accordingly.
-You want a button to turn a mode on or off, you don't add the button as an input, instead you go into the options menu (the place you haven't looked at since you set the unit up because it's for changing things like Celsius/Fahrenheit and you time zone) turn on Mode Control and tell Mode Control where the button is. Then you can go to the settings for the mode and tell it what voltage to watch for on that button. Also, it can only be used to turn the mode on? So far as I can tell, it can't be used as a toggle switch. It has to timeout on it's own.

Why can't I add the button as an input and use said input to control an output device or a mode?

Why is it that a input button can be on any of the pins and each can do their own thing, but all mode inputs are restricted to one pin and if you want to create discrete controls, you can only do it via voltage changes. That quickly removes a lot of the DIY elements. Plenty of people, myself included can handle wiring up some switches. But once resistors and more complicated circuity is involved (anything more complicated than 'wire comes from this pin, goes through a switch/button etc, then to that pin'), the DIY aspect is quickly slipping away.

Why is it that pumps can't be controlled by an input? If you want the button to control a pump (and this is what I'm talking about with workarounds being designed right into the system) you have to create a new output. The new output watches for the button and turns on/off based on that. The new output doesn't actually control anything (leave the output device unused) but then you can go to the pump you want to control and tell it to turn on/off based on the status of that new output.
So, instead of a button to turn on and off a pump, instead you have a button to turn on and off a dummy output and that dummy output can turn on and off the pump.
Unless it's the gyre pump that came included with the wave engine. That one has no way to be controlled by anything other than the app. Also, to make the included gyre pump with it's own preprogammed settings work properly, you have to tell it to run in reverse AND tell the app the pump is installed on the 'opposite wall'. For whatever reason telling it to run backwards twice (so it runs forwards) fixes the other issues.

I can go on with other inconsistencies and oddities, there's plenty of them.
ISTM, the software needs to be scrapped and started over to get rid of all the workarounds. This app makes me want to rip my hair out.

 

[n2585722]

I ordered the control4 starter kit last night. As I said above I use Tunze pumps. I also ordered a quad cable and adapter cables for two of the 4 pumps I use in my DT. If I understand the description correctly and the capabilities of the controller I should be able to run a total of 8 Tunze pumps with the two 0-10v inputs correct?

There are only 4 0-10v output channels on the X4. The other 4 are 0-10v inputs to the controller and not outputs.

 

[fragit]

There are only 4 0-10v output channels on the X4. The other 4 are 0-10v inputs to the controller and not outputs.

Aha I see, so max of 4 pumps through the 0-10v output, additional pumps would require a wave engine or additional control module?

 

[n2585722]

I've spent hours upon hours trying to make them work with the Wave Engine (which has 0-10v Input) and it's a nightmare.

My current issue with the Hydros system is that all the hardware is there, but the software is a mess and needlessly complicated. It's like they keep adding features but instead of making them all work together, it's one big spiderweb of workarounds and nothing is logical, it's all things you just have to *know*.

Case in point.
-You want a buton to turn an individual device on or off. Add the button as an input then tell the device to watch that input and react accordingly.
-You want a button to turn a mode on or off, you don't add the button as an input, instead you go into the options menu (the place you haven't looked at since you set the unit up because it's for changing things like Celsius/Fahrenheit and you time zone) turn on Mode Control and tell Mode Control where the button is. Then you can go to the settings for the mode and tell it what voltage to watch for on that button. Also, it can only be used to turn the mode on? So far as I can tell, it can't be used as a toggle switch. It has to timeout on it's own.

Why can't I add the button as an input and use said input to control an output device or a mode?

Why is it that a input button can be on any of the pins and each can do their own thing, but all mode inputs are restricted to one pin and if you want to create discrete controls, you can only do it via voltage changes. That quickly removes a lot of the DIY elements. Plenty of people, myself included can handle wiring up some switches. But once resistors and more complicated circuity is involved (anything more complicated than 'wire comes from this pin, goes through a switch/button etc, then to that pin'), the DIY aspect is quickly slipping away.

Why is it that pumps can't be controlled by an input? If you want the button to control a pump (and this is what I'm talking about with workarounds being designed right into the system) you have to create a new output. The new output watches for the button and turns on/off based on that. The new output doesn't actually control anything (leave the output device unused) but then you can go to the pump you want to control and tell it to turn on/off based on the status of that new output.
So, instead of a button to turn on and off a pump, instead you have a button to turn on and off a dummy output and that dummy output can turn on and off the pump.
Unless it's the gyre pump that came included with the wave engine. That one has no way to be controlled by anything other than the app. Also, to make the included gyre pump with it's own preprogammed settings work properly, you have to tell it to run in reverse AND tell the app the pump is installed on the 'opposite wall'. For whatever reason telling it to run backwards twice (so it runs forwards) fixes the other issues.

I can go on with other inconsistencies and oddities, there's plenty of them.
ISTM, the software needs to be scrapped and started over to get rid of all the workarounds. This app makes me want to rip my hair out.

I find the Hydros system very easy to setup and program. I have 8 controllers in a collective. I have a 9th one to add to the collective. It is my first WaveEngine. I have the Hydros controlling the normal things such as pumps, heaters, cooling fans and some of my lighting. It also controls the RODI unit and refills my DI storage tank. It refills my fresh saltwater tank for AWC when it goes low and the mix tank is ready to use. Once the water has been transferred to the fresh water tank it refills the mix tank with DI water. All I have to do is add the salt mix and press a button to let the Hydros once it is ready to use. I have 30 inputs created and 62 outputs created in the collective.

 

[n2585722]

Aha I see, so max of 4 pumps through the 0-10v output, additional pumps would require a wave engine or additional control module?

Yes, the X4 and WaveEngine have the 4 0-10v outputs. The WaveEngine 0-10v outputs are limited to pumps unless it is in a collective with a controller then they have all the control they would on the X4. The WaveEngine LE does not have the 0-10v outputs if I remember correctly.