Ich Management Protocol

[Paul B]

If anyone knows alternatives to selcon and vitacon here in the UK let me know please.

Yes, clams and worms. Thats all you need and they are much cheaper than Selcon and Vitacon. (whatever that is)

 

[KyleC]

Yes, clams and worms. Thats all you need and they are much cheaper than Selcon and Vitacon. (whatever that is)

Ok cool, thanks Paul! Reaching out to my lfs now to try and get blackworms. Are clams from a fishmongers ok yea? Providing they're whole? Then just scrape out innerds for my fish to eat?

 

[Paul B]

Yes clams from there are fine. Chop them up small enough and throw in the clam juice also.

 

[KyleC]

Personally, I don’t think either are very effective on Ick, but I have more concern with peroxide as it certainly is bad if dosed incorrectly or maybe ineffective in combination with UV.

I tried only once, 3% 1ml per 10g, every other day, for 6 days, so 3 treatments. At the same time lost a huge birdsnest, a monti, and a clam.

It appeared to “shrink” the corals, they loose colour.

So these days, Iam just letting whatever happens, happen, but ensuring rock solid chemistry and normal feeding routines.

I add around 24ml daily... over 3 doses (8ml each) as per humblefish's approach. I did notice at the end of the first week my gsp was not very happy... so I'd take a few days break before starting to dose again. So far no losses. May or may not be helping to reduce the number of parasites but until it has a detrimental effect, I'll keep dosing. Though if these clams and worms help my tang then I'll back off on the dosing completely. I just want to give it a bit of a fighting chance.

 

[KyleC]

I used it with adding a uv, increased water changes and heavy feeding with food soaked in Vitachem, Selcon and garlic extreme. I can’t say if all or one or more worked but it was part of what I implemented.

Can't find those here in uk... though I think seachem does similar bottles for soaking food so might order them if the tang gets worse.

 

[KyleC]

Yes clams from there are fine. Chop them up small enough and throw in the clam juice also.

Brilliant... heading out today to get some!

 

[KyleC]

Thought I'd be able to update my original post with everyone's recommendations... but no option to. Must only be stickies that works on?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Starting to think ich management is a combination of the standard approach as you've described and summarised well, which can lead to Paul's 'immunity' approach.

These steps, while they won't completely eradicate ich, buys the fish more time to develop a strong immunity towards it.

I think for me, I'll try soaking food, increase feeds, include more natural seafoods & worms into their diet, and up water plus filter sock changes. So now I just need to order some selcon, vitachem and garlic.

As for the garlic, I wonder can one not simply use raw garlic soaked in rodi water? Or does too much garlic pose a risk?

I would not. The garlic we acquire is garlic extract such as seachem or Brightwell brands

 

[KyleC]

I would not. The garlic we acquire is garlic extract such as seachem or Brightwell brands

I got my hands on some garlic extract yesterday... soaked some pellets.. maybe too much as the fish weren't as keen.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I got my hands on some garlic extract yesterday... soaked some pellets.. maybe too much as the fish weren't as keen.

You need just a little

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I add around 24ml daily... over 3 doses (8ml each) as per humblefish's approach. I did notice at the end of the first week my gsp was not very happy... so I'd take a few days break before starting to dose again. So far no losses. May or may not be helping to reduce the number of parasites but until it has a detrimental effect, I'll keep dosing. Though if these clams and worms help my tang then I'll back off on the dosing completely. I just want to give it a bit of a fighting chance.

Do you have any shrimp in the tank? I've found that those tend to die first if the dose is too high....not sure why.

Jay

 

[KyleC]

Do you have any shrimp in the tank? I've found that those tend to die first if the dose is too high....not sure why.

Jay

Yea, 1 skunk shrimp. Read that too, plus snails. Haven't saw any losses yet. Even my berghia are surviving, laying eggs etc. I'm keeping a very close eye.

 

[Paul B]

I've found that those tend to die first if the dose is too high....not sure why.

Maybe he needs Italian shrimp. They love garlic. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

 

[KrisReef]

:smiling-face-with-sunglasses: Thought I'd be able to update my original post with everyone's recommendations... but no option to. Must only be stickies that works on?

You should upgrade your membership. Some pay-levels come with enhancements including let’s say “liberal editing.” I’m too lazy to look them up but that’s the way to accomplish the editing thing on here.

I had to move my fish tank that’s been running Ich management and I botched the process and got a huge outbreak. I have added a UV and slowly the outbreak has been subsiding.

I think the issue of having to move the tank allowed the fish to get stressed for too long, (8+hours) and I didn’t think that it would be a long term problem but once the spots got saturated the fish were challenged more than good nutrition would help. The UV is a good tool, I wish I had added it sooner as I lost some long term residence before the fish got clear of the threat.

I also had too many fish for the space. Without Ich they had established a pecking order that kept aggressive behavior in check. Adding Ich, the beasts saw an opportunity to eliminate competition in a crowded environment and the illegitimate nature kicked in which tipped the scales towards Death by Ich. Gives me new respect for recommendations from the “Tang Police” regarding stock density with Tangs. And others.
I have a wrasse that has been eating Anthias also following the in tank stress incident that has happened following a pipe break in the house that made me move the tank that I was “never going to move.”

Thanks for the Thread.:smiling-face-with-sunglasses:

 

[MrWellington]

Good timing with this thread. With the exception of a DF puffer, my FOWLR crashed. All fish dead as of this AM. This after a 70% water changes yesterday. The puffer is covered with white spots. He’s now resting in a copper dosed QT.

So now I have a tank with a few hermit.

does increased temp (90) help, or is that myth. I have IchX. Does it work? is there even a way to determine if the tank is again safe for fish or is more about time and wishful thinking?

(Also wondering if I chose the wrong hobby to help with my depression)

I believe I introduced ICH into the system last week with a large CUC from saltwateraquarium.com. It’s the only thing that wasn’t qt’d.

 

[KyleC]

Sorry about your losses! This hobby is very rewarding, but sometimes it can hit real hard as many of us already know. I lost a puffer when I first acquired the tank. Only had him 2 months, felt so bad I wanted to give it up too but here I am. Still learning and doing my best to provide the best I can for my fish. Ich is very hard to avoid IMO. Which is why I'm going down the ich management route for now.

Once my tang (fingers crossed) recovers and builds an immunity, I'll not be adding any new fish for some time until I've explored Paul B's approach more. I think he had the right idea.

I have read that increasing the temperature can help to reduce the fallow period. I'm nearly sure there's a thread here somewhere that discusses it in more depth. Anyhow, if you're tank is fishless now, I'd say do the fallow, and focus on getting your puffer back to health. Good luck!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good timing with this thread. With the exception of a DF puffer, my FOWLR crashed. All fish dead as of this AM. This after a 70% water changes yesterday. The puffer is covered with white spots. He’s now resting in a copper dosed QT.

So now I have a tank with a few hermit.

does increased temp (90) help, or is that myth. I have IchX. Does it work? is there even a way to determine if the tank is again safe for fish or is more about time and wishful thinking?

(Also wondering if I chose the wrong hobby to help with my depression)

I believe I introduced ICH into the system last week with a large CUC from saltwateraquarium.com. It’s the only thing that wasn’t qt’d.

Sorry to hear.

IchX is best confined for use in freshwater.
Raising the water temperature is also a technique used for freshwater ich. It does not work for marine ich, but do many people think “ich is ich” that it gets passed off as working in marine tanks, but it actually makes things worse.

The two best treatments for marine ich are either coppersafe/copper power, or hyposalinity.

Jay

 

[Charles Zinn]

Hi All,

Thought maybe I'd find an 'Ich Management Protocol' thread but I can't see any.

Background: I had ich when I first got my tank (already established a year, from previous owner). It came with a bad dose of ich and quickly killed the puffer before I had a chance to do anything. I went fallow for 76 days, but stupidly added coral during that time and when I readded fish, ich reappeared.

Since then I've increased feedings and the Royal Gramma has shown less and less spots of ich, hardly any at all now (been weeks). I then added a Regal Tang and of course, it has ich now.

I'm feeding frozen brine (with added garlic and spirulina), mysis (with added garlic and spirulina), frozen fish eggs, and pellets.

I want to try ich management so I've recently started dosing H202 as per humblefish's guidance.

What are other steps I take? I can't go fallow again as I don't have a QT tank big enough for the small tang, royal gramma, 2 clowns and cardinal fish (I only have a 60 litre QT).

Does UV work to help reduce free swimmers? If so, what size for an aquaone aquareef 300? How often should it be on, and does it have to be hard plumped into the tank?

Also, what other foods/vitamins might help? I'm ordering some nori for the tang this week too.

Depending on the responses to this thread, I'll update this post with a summary of ich management steps.

Thanks.

1) Humblefish's HH202 dosing (experimental, use with caution)
2) Soak frozen/freeze dried foods in selcon (once a week)

What about a uv sterelizet for what ich falls off the fish.

 

[jasonrusso]

If so, what size for an aquaone aquareef 300?

This is the only time I see the tank size mentioned, is it a 300L (75g)?

I think I recall reading something along these lines in Humblefish's posts regarding nightly dosing of H2O2. I've not tried the nightly dosing yet as I had to go on holidays just before the 3rd week and didn't want to risk an overdose while I was away. I'm going to see the H2O2 through this time (providing no seriously ill affects and providing my tang improves) so I'll try nightly then too.

The overnight dose is the most important. The article that was cited outlines why.

"Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period."

I add around 24ml daily... over 3 doses (8ml each) as per humblefish's approach. I did notice at the end of the first week my gsp was not very happy... so I'd take a few days break before starting to dose again. So far no losses. May or may not be helping to reduce the number of parasites but until it has a detrimental effect, I'll keep dosing. Though if these clams and worms help my tang then I'll back off on the dosing completely. I just want to give it a bit of a fighting chance.

All I can do it tell you about my experience. It ruffles feathers on here.

Earlier this year, I had an ich outbreak in both my tanks (pre-quarrantined fish aren't as safe as advertised :face-with-thermometer::face-with-thermometer:). My 34g reef and my 220g Fowler (yes, the fowler has some coral clippings from the reef tank that I don't really care about. Mostly GSP, mushrooms, and frogspawn) were both infected.

34g first, my PJ cardinal fish were the worst off. I caught all the fish and treated them with Chloroquine Phosphate for at least a month. Some were in longer because they were easier to catch. I lost 3 of 8 fish I believe due to stress because none died in the DT, only the QT. 60 days later (I raised the temp in the DT) and I put them back in. All were clear at this point.

The 220 had my huge (14") porcupine puffer, tomini tang, eel, foxface, and harlequin tusk. My puffer was the worst by far (in my opinion, the worst ich magnet possible). I feel he was already sick before as he was skinny, so I moved him first into a 75G and started treatment. He died a few days later. All the other fish were showing signs of ich like flashing, panting, and muted colors. I caught all the other fish and put them in the QT and treated with Chloroquine phosphate. The tusk died within a week (second time I lost a big tusk due to moving into QT). The tang, foxface, and eel all made it through QT (eels don't eat with chloroquine in the water) and went back into the DT.

I got a new porcupine puffer and baby harlequin tusk QT'd them. They made it into the 220 DT and after a week they were showing spots. I started noticing the other fish showing signs again. The puffer and tusk were the worst off.

In the 34G reef, the cardinal fish were showing spots on their fins again and I saw some flashing from the clowns as well. There are 2 gobies and pistol shrimp in there as well.

It was during the fallow that I stumbled upon the H2O2 thread on the Humblefish page. I probably read 55-60 pages until it was all just repetitive questions. I said I was not going to QT and go fallow again. The stress kills.

I started the dosing per the recommendations including the overnight dose. In the reef tank, the PJ cardinals cleared up within 2 weeks and have been clear since (it's hard to tell, because they breed all the time and beat each other up a bit).

The 220G was a different story. I started with the recommended dose. I didn't see much improvement, in fact the puffer declined slowly over a couple of weeks. To be honest, the UV per gallon on the small tank is higher. Maybe that's the reason, or maybe the puffer is more prone to ich. It got to the point that I had to remove the puffer and put him in QT with chloroquine. He was improving until he got what I think was a bacterial infection and died :downcast-face-with-sweat:. The tusk was pretty covered.

I read an article about the doses that commercial fish farms use and how high the fish can tollerate. With the humblefish doses, it's like 3-5ppm. Commercial farms go up to 150ppm. I read a thread where someone was dosing 75ppm and it cured the parasite infection. I started cranking up my dosing. I was changing the quart bottles every day. I bought 35% food grade peroxide and diluted it to 8% so it lasts me a week.

I'm not exactly sure of the ppm i'm dosing (I can look it up if you want. I kept increasing it a little at a time), but at some point everyone cleared up and have been clear for months. I am still dosing currently, but I have added a lionfish and another little puffer (2 weeks) and everyone looks good. I'm thinking about tailing off the dosing amounts to see what happens.

The coral clippings do have a reaction to the peroxide. The GSP is still there but doesn't open. Some shrooms died, but others multiplied so maybe it's placment. The frogspawn opens about 50%, but is still alive. If I had a full reef tank, I wouldn't recommend the dosing regimen I'm doing in the fowler.

What about a uv sterelizet for what ich falls off the fish.

I personally feel UV isn't a good method for controlling a parasite. There is no way 100% of the water is going through the UV, espically something that is stuck in the sand.

 

[ctopherl]

Thanks Jay!

Hopefully for my tang I still have time, as today I'd say it has around 10-15 spots at most. If I notice it getting worse, I can setup my QT tank and treat it on It's own as I have coppersafe to hand.

1) Can you give anymore info on using UV? My tank is around 300 litres. I think I read somewhere you want 1W per 5 gallons, so I'd need around 25W. Can you get UVs with their own pump? So as not to have to hard plumb them?

3) is there any reasoning behind this temp? I've mine set to 24.5-25°C (76.1-77°F). Can easily up to 78 but would higher temperatures not accelerate disease progression?

4) I have a sandsifting starfish, I'd be worried siphoning the sandbed would reduce microfauna and negatively impact the starfish.

5) Currently using 5 micron filter socks changed every 3-4 days plus a skimmer... would this suffice?

6) I know H202 is controversial, but I feel I'd rather use this over the reef safe meds... as when I tried them previously, my corals closed pretty fast even though I stuck to the guidelines closely.

UV units will have guidance on which model fits what quantity of water, ignore any rule of thumb about watts per gallons and just follow manufacturer recommendations. You do not have to hard plumb if you don’t want. A standalone pump in your sump with some flex tubing into the UV and then back into the sump will work. Just keep in mind this is likely *less* effective as it is processing less of the water per hour, but that is OK.

Peroxide dosing is fine to try but beware it can harm coral or inverts, you may have some losses.