Ich that isn't ich!?!

[immafishguy]

How's it going everyone, I've got some fish that seem to be infected with something but not sure what it could be. These fish are all from my display, that I have had for over a year now, I had an outbreak of ich a few months ago and have been leaving it fallow so I moved them all to a quarantine. They had been treated with copper for the first 30days, then after the ich went away I removed the copper... I got a few new fish in, so I decided to remediate them all together for an additional 30days. As my fallow period is almost up, I have been watching them all very closely to make sure that they are ready to go back into the display, when I noticed small cloudy spots all over them. It presents much smaller than ich, and doesn't seem to be affecting the fish's behavior. On some fish, like my blue tang and clownfish, the spots are not raised off the oft like ich, but present almost like dusty patches on the scales. Everyone is still eating and behaving normally. There is occasional scratching though. They have exhibited these spots for almost 3 weeks now, and all while still being in copper.(been using coppersafe at a 2.0ppm concentration).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[4FordFamily]

Yikes that looks like velvet to me... what test kit are you using??

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12 @ngoodermuth

 

[immafishguy]

Yikes that looks like velvet to me... what test kit are you using??

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12 @ngoodermuth

Been using salifert, it's brand new

 

[melypr1985]

It does look like velvet. It shouldn't be there assuming the copper has stayed at 2ppm the entire 30 days. When you do water changes, are you dosing the new water with copper before it goes into the QT?

 

[melypr1985]

Been using salifert, it's brand new

Salifert isn't the correct kit for coppersafe which is a chelated copper. API is what you need OR something like Chemetrics.

 

[JamesP]

Is it possible to have velvet on fish he has had for over a year? I guess i am assuming no new additions in that time.

 

[JamesP]

Is it possible to have velvet on fish he has had for over a year? I guess i am assuming no new additions in that time.

My mistake, he got new fish in i see. Missed that first read through. Sorry.

 

[immafishguy]

It does look like velvet. It shouldn't be there assuming the copper has stayed at 2ppm the entire 30 days. When you do water changes, are you dosing the new water with copper before it goes into the QT?

Yup, I always redoes the new water. As for the test kit, saliferts directions say to wait double the time for the full color to change for chelated copper(like coppersafe). But regardless, I always dose a the recommend amount for the water volume and do so with every water change. I do 100% water changes one a week, so there is always a fresh dose every week.. assuming that salifert is wrong, is it really possible for it to be persistent for this long?

 

[immafishguy]

Yup, I always redoes the new water. As for the test kit, saliferts directions say to wait double the time for the full color to change for chelated copper(like coppersafe). But regardless, I always dose a the recommend amount for the water volume and do so with every water change. I do 100% water changes one a week, so there is always a fresh dose every week.. assuming that salifert is wrong, is it really possible for it to be persistent for this long?

Btw, I also scrub down all the surfaces of the tank when I do water changes and rinse out the system with hot tap water to sterilize the surfaces...

 

[Humblefish]

I would give one of them a FW dip to check for flukes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

It will look like what you see in the video below if they have flukes:

 

[jeff williams]

Btw, I also scrub down all the surfaces of the tank when I do water changes and rinse out the system with hot tap water to sterilize the surfaces...

In order to sterilize the tank it needs to dry and stay dry 24 hrs.minimum You can use bleach to sterilize but if not mistaken it's been shown some bio film can still protect the encrusted parasites so drying is the best

 

[immafishguy]

I would give one of them a FW dip to check for flukes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

It will look like what you see in the video below if they have flukes:

I forgot to mention it, but I fresh water dip all my fish periodically. But these spots did not come off when I dipped them, no flukes came off. (The dips are done with praziquantel and for between 3-5 minutes)

 

[immafishguy]

In order to sterilize the tank it needs to dry and stay dry 24 hrs.minimum You can use bleach to sterilize but if not mistaken it's been shown some bio film can still protect the encrusted parasites so drying is the best

Didn't know that, but good to know!

 

[Humblefish]

I forgot to mention it, but I fresh water dip all my fish periodically. But these spots did not come off when I dipped them, no flukes came off. (The dips are done with praziquantel and for between 3-5 minutes)

Can't be a worm then, as at least some would dislodge after 3-4 mins in FW.

There's something about your photos which doesn't look quite "right" for velvet. I'm wondering if it could actually be a skin reaction from being in copper too long.

 

[jeff williams]

Can't be a worm then, as at least some would dislodge after 3-4 mins in FW.

There's something about your photos which doesn't look quite "right" for velvet. I'm wondering if it could actually be a skin reaction from being in copper too long.

Have you thought about running an antibiotic or say seachems stress gaurd that has an antiseptic in it ,humblefish would know for sure but is it possible this might be some infection of the lesion from the ick, if you do run stress gaurd all the copper has to be out of the tank

 

[immafishguy]

Can't be a worm then, as at least some would dislodge after 3-4 mins in FW.

There's something about your photos which doesn't look quite "right" for velvet. I'm wondering if it could actually be a skin reaction from being in copper too long.

I was thinking the same thing too, maybe an allergic reaction or rash, the only thing is that it's also on some of my newer fish that have only been in copper for 30 days or so... could it be a virus maybe?

 

[immafishguy]

Have you thought about running an antibiotic or say seachems stress gaurd that has an antiseptic in it ,humblefish would know for sure but is it possible this might be some infection of the lesion from the ick, if you do run stress gaurd all the copper has to be out of the tank

In the past, I've used nitrofurazone, but I haven't tried to treat it to treat this particular problem. I was thinking about running the combination of praziquantel, copper, and nitro all at the same time. I've done so in the past for short term applications(14days) but I'm worried that all the fish have been exposed to the meds for to long and running even more will seriously harm their systems.

 

[jeff williams]

In the past, I've used nitrofurazone, but I haven't tried to treat it to treat this particular problem. I was thinking about running the combination of praziquantel, copper, and nitro all at the same time. I've done so in the past for short term applications(14days) but I'm worried that all the fish have been exposed to the meds for to long and running even more will seriously harm their systems.

Nitrofuralto the best of knowledge is no longer available in the USA but it might still be for animals. I was thinking more like Kanaplex you can treat the water and its absorbed through the gills. Or if your concerned about them in medication to long get them out of the cu and stress gaurd by Seachem isn't a medication per say like an antibiotic it just has a antiseptic property

 

[Humblefish]

I was thinking the same thing too, maybe an allergic reaction or rash, the only thing is that it's also on some of my newer fish that have only been in copper for 30 days or so... could it be a virus maybe?

Could be the start of this "mystery disease" I've never figured out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440449

I've seen it a bunch of other times, but that thread is the best documented. I believe the OP "fixed it" by dosing Metroplex + Kanaplex, possibly also Furan-2 for good measure.

 

[immafishguy]

Could be the start of this "mystery disease" I've never figured out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440449

I've seen it a bunch of other times, but that thread is the best documented. I believe the OP "fixed it" by dosing Metroplex + Kanaplex, possibly also Furan-2 for good measure.

I looked at the thread, but it doesn't look like what my fish have. The spots are incredibly hard to see and unless you are looking incredibly close(as in close enough to see each individual scale, they aren't visible). in the photos, I over exposed the images and increased the whites to make the spots more visible, but in actuality, they are incredibly small cloudy spots. Almost looks like individual specs of powder sugar that are widely spread like ich. Imagine a trophont but 1/10th the size.