Indonesia Situation

[oddomatic]

And the wholesalers should be growing out whatever they have in stock so they have a constant supply of what is currently available. I know my lfs does. Even before the ban I cant remember the last time they carried anything other than aquaculture which is all from their grow out tanks.

Your right. Many places do sell primarily out of their own grow out tanks, but that’s because much of the industry is buffered with a vast supply of fresh incoming coral on a weekly basis, keeping demand lower. What happens when that stops? Do you think aquaculture can support the industry as a whole in its current state? I don’t. Maybe If they had years to prepare we’d be whistling a different tune. But, this happened overnight. It’s very similar to what happened with the supply of bourbon whiskey a few years back... Both bourbon and coral take time to prepare the appropriate stock to meet demand. All I’m saying is, thinking coral bans are not an issue, is not really looking at the big picture.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

This is all super depressing...

Your right. Many places do sell primarily out of their own grow out tanks, but that’s because much of the industry is buffered with a vast supply of fresh incoming coral on a weekly basis, keeping demand lower. What happens when that stops? Do you think aquaculture can support the industry as a whole in its current state? I don’t. Maybe If they had years to prepare we’d be whistling a different tune. But, this happened overnight. It’s very similar to what happened with the supply of bourbon whiskey a few years back... Both bourbon and coral take time to prepare the appropriate stock to meet demand. All I’m saying is, thinking coral bans are not an issue, is not really looking at the big picture.

We've been a state licensed coral aquaculture facility since 2000. While the ban may have been unexpected, we have been culturing corals and setting up mariculture farms for a long time.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/check-out-the-adventures.442013/

 

[Huskymaniac]

I honestly think that the writing has been on the wall for a while now and those who are prepared will succeed. I can tell you at my LFS the only wild caught corals that come in are always LPS corals like brain and chalice's. Likely because of their slow growth rate.

 

[oddomatic]

I guess where are you getting your aquacultured corals from? To me it makes no difference. You dont need a variety of 1,000 corals. Look at what ORA does. Got a dozen or so frags and let them grown and fill in your tanks. Soft corals like leathers, polyps, etc may be the new norm. If thats what it is then so be it. Stick a couple red and green planets and mix in a few toadstools and few clams and be done with it.

It’s not so much about variety for me. It’s more about availability. I really don’t think the industry is prepared to bear all of the weight primarily on aquaculture at this point in time. I just don’t...

 

[oddomatic]

I honestly think that the writing has been on the wall for a while now and those who are prepared will succeed. I can tell you at my LFS the only wild caught corals that come in are always LPS corals like brain and chalice's. Likely because of their slow growth rate.

I agree with that too.

 

[Huskymaniac]

What areas are still doing maricultured colonies? Seems like LA has a constant supply of the same varities in their daily DD. Is it just their overstock?

 

[oddomatic]

We've been a state licensed coral aquaculture facility since 2000. While the ban may have been unexpected, we have been culturing corals and setting up mariculture farms for a long time.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/check-out-the-adventures.442013/

How do you think the industry as a whole will fare?

 

[TheHarold]

Well, if you had that much of it in the past, my guess is you’ll probably have it again at some point in the future. My point remains, when that time comes, try to be generous and not think about how much it’s worth (coral bans in place or not). That’s really all I’ve been trying to say. It really set me off before when you said “Is this worth a ton of money now?” Personally, I think it was poor taste to post something like that in a discussion about coral bans and the repercussions it could have on the industry but, to each his own...

Don't take Huskymaniac seriously... this guy keeps on trying to brag about his frogspawn and LPS/Softy tanks in a thread about a serious problem. He's just attention seeking. It also sounds like he is bitter about prices for rare/collectible corals- yet he thinks his frogspawn is special. Maybe he doesn't realize one can grab a head for $10 at their LFS.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Don't take Huskymaniac seriously... this guy keeps on trying to brag about his frogspawn and LPS/Softy tanks in a thread about a serious problem. He's just attention seeking. It also sounds like he is bitter about prices for rare/collectible corals- yet he thinks his frogspawn is special. Maybe he doesn't realize one can grab a head for $10 at their LFS.

Its only a serious problem for those who wont be able to spend thousands of dollars on some cool named new wild caught acro colony that was fragged. If your LFS is selling $10 frogspawn heads go scoop them up or are you saving your money for some overpriced designer clownfish or a shroom that bounces? Attention is the last thing I am looking for. Everything will be fine and will work itself.out one way or another.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

OK folks. If you wish to battle each other or argue about your corals and their value please take it elsewhere, start your own thread and fight all you wish. The chatter takes away from the point of this thread.

 

[oddomatic]

How do you think the industry as a whole will fare?

On a side note, I do appreciate aquaculture in our industry. Very much so, in fact. My concern with a “strictly aquaculture” industry though is the ability for it to bear the entire load of coral demand. Even if supply has been building for decades, it can be quickly diminished if there are no alternatives. And, if Australia tightens up anymore than it already has, we are in big trouble. Supply that took 20 years to build in a facility cannot be replaced overnight. Honestly, I think it’s fair to say that’s on a lot of people’s minds... I wish you guys the best as well as all the businesses in the industry. We are all hoping for the best outcome for everyone.

 

[oddomatic]

OK folks. If you wish to battle each other or argue about your corals and their value please take it elsewhere, start your own thread and fight all you wish. The chatter takes away from the point of this thread.

Understood. I’m bowing out.

 

[shred5]

OK folks. If you wish to battle each other or argue about your corals and their value please take it elsewhere, start your own thread and fight all you wish. The chatter takes away from the point of this thread.

Agreed it got way off track... People are passionate about this stuff and they should be.

It also needs to be discussed but not here.

 

[Brian1f1]

I was actually debating getting rid of it, but if you can never get a frogspawn again than certainly I will keep it. Have actually had this peice since 2008.

Slow grower?

 

[Brian1f1]

There are so many rumors and hearsay floating around its hard to know what to believe. The one true fact is that Indonesia is shut down and so is Fiji. The people that do know arent speaking. We all know that our reefs arent in good shape and we might be witnessing the greatest catastrophe ever if they do in fact die. I do believe the hobby could sustain itself with what is available now. There are also universities that are studying the spawning of coral and getting to breed on demand. Neptune Systems has a great video on it. I also believe it is the duty of every shop owner to educate their customers as thoroughly as possible. I have hope that the reefs will thrive once again and this hobby will continue for many years to come. Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents on this.

I believe an altered form of the hobby will persist, I do not believe, for a heartbeat, wild reefs will ever thrive again on a timescale we can appreciate... Every shred of evidence points towards an extraordinarily bleak future to compliment the incredibly bleak present day situation.

 

[Overboard]

Thanks for all your updates and insights Dr. Mac!

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

It appears from reports from some exporters that negotiations may be at a critical juncture between government and exporters, rumors about possibly a decision about permanently ending exports is looming or possibly opening up exports for just cultured corals. As with all such rumors no one really knows--they are just that--rumors. It have been 4 months and nothing definitive.

IMHO, It would be very helpful if the industry in Indonesia would be more communicative about what is going on. Come clean publicly about the bad actors in the industry, what you plan to do to clean it up, and what has happened during the past 4 months. Possibly as concerned hobbyists and businesses we could be of some help if we banded together with a logical well thought out response. But, when confronted with zero feedback, rumors abound and that helps no one. While I understand negotiations are delicate, allowing baseless rumors does not help. One exporter I know personally that is directly involved in the meetings refuses to correspond. We here that are concerned hobbyists and those in the business that have their livelihoods impacted are not your enemy, we are willing and ready to help if we can!

Here the latest on the actions by the Minister of Fisheries

Background on the subject
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...ts-on-continuing-her-ship-sinking-policy.html

Recent report
https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2018/08/21/056920991/Susi-Pudjiastuti-Drowns-125-Ships-at-Once

If you look back in this thread you will see links to articles describing the person responsible for the stoppage of exports. It gives you a bit of insight into who the industry there is dealing with. As you may surmise from reading all these articles, negotiating is difficult at best. Our aquarium trade is miniscule in comparison to the fishing trade.

Please, let's keep this thread as informational rather than for speculation and venting.

 

[Aesthetic MInd]

It appears from reports from some exporters that negotiations may be at a critical juncture between government and exporters, rumors about possibly a decision about permanently ending exports is looming. As with all such rumors no one really knows--they are just that--rumors. It have been 4 months and nothing definitive.

IMHO, It would be very helpful if the industry in Indonesia would be more communicative about what is going on. Come clean publicly about the bad actors in the industry, what you plan to do to clean it up, and what has happened during the past 4 months. Possibly as concerned hobbyists and businesses we could be of some help if we banded together with a logical well thought out response. But, when confronted with zero feedback, rumors abound and that helps no one. While I understand negotiations are delicate, allowing baseless rumors does not help. One exporter I know personally that is directly involved in the meetings refuses to correspond. We here that are concerned hobbyists and those in the business that have their livelihoods impacted are not your enemy, we are willing and ready to help if we can!

Here the latest on the actions by the Minister of Fisheries

Background on the subject
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...ts-on-continuing-her-ship-sinking-policy.html

Recent report
https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2018/08/21/056920991/Susi-Pudjiastuti-Drowns-125-Ships-at-Once

If you look back in this thread you will see links to articles describing the person responsible for the stoppage of exports. It gives you a bit of insight into who the industry there is dealing with. As you may surmise from reading all these articles, negotiating is difficult at best. Our aquarium trade is miniscule in comparison to the fishing trade.

Please, let's keep this thread as informational rather than for speculation and venting.

KINDLY PM ME ON THE SIDE DR MAC. I MAY HAVE SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

KINDLY PM ME ON THE SIDE DR MAC. I MAY HAVE SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU

Done

 

[Retro Reefer]

Recent report
https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2018/08/21/056920991/Susi-Pudjiastuti-Drowns-125-Ships-at-Once

So I’m wondering what kind of environmental impact scuttling almost 488 boats in the last few years will have, I would think it’s safe to say they where not prepped in any way prior to sinking so I’m assuming she could care less about the health or wellbeing of the reefs.