Is this hobby a perpetual money pit ?

[cancun]

You don't have a problem. If you was spending that money on copulation, drugs and bail money then you could say you were having a problem. You have a reef tank! That's awesome and totally worth it. Anyone who says otherwise is illiterate in lifes priorities. That's what I tell myself and I feel better about life now.

?

Amen to that! Now I feel better!

 

[outhouse]

Only if your not smart enough to make it pay for itself, my tanks often more than pays for itself

 

[Paul B]

Then Hanna testers are 80$ bucks each + 25$ for the reagents + delivery. Red Sea Foundation pro kit is 75$. All for reef is another 80$. That’s about 700$ right there, off the top of my head. It adds up very fast !

I don't use Hanna test kits. I don't even know what test kits I have but they were probably 15 bucks and last me about a year because I rarely test.

I know what I put in my water so there is no reason to test every week.

 

[sam2110]

My waterbox cube 10 and my fluval sea evo has Cost 5k for both, 18 months on my corals are starting to recoup some of the costs. If you can keep your expensive corals healthy and frag them the money does slowly start coming back in, I've got a montipora that I get 2 or 3 frags off every month at 45 a frag And a few others every month or so at 25 a frag. I recently fragged a dragon soul torch got 180 per head. I've got a few other bits of rapid growing SPS that I sell for 10 a frag.

It takes time and nothing happens fast your overall spend will start curving off.

 

[Bato367]

To be fair, nearly all hobbies are expensive. It's up to us to find a balance and a way to enjoy them. A refuge from the daily grind should bring us joy and relaxation not additional stresses.

I think of this hobby like Jeeps. If you buy every product that you can plug and play with, it will be expensive and mostly unnecessary. Some people have $100k wrapped up in a Jeep that is a total pile compared to a clean Jeep that another person has only spent $20k on.

I've spent nearly as much on a 13.5-gallon evo than I have a nice used Red Sea 130L, and my first 55 gallon. And all of these have cost nearly as much as my current Reefer 425. So, smaller is definitely not cheaper. Also, cheaping out on everything just brings headaches and actually costs more in the long run.

So, I say, make a well-defined budget/plan and buy quality equipment from the start, once, and be done.

 

[Lyss]

You need the testas a beginner, big time. I cycled w/API then moved on to Salifert for Alk/Cal/Mag. Then got the Alk/Nitrate/Phosphate Hanna testers finally and am 100% glad I did. You should be testing at least weekly on a younger tank, but it will slow down as the tank matures.

I also use all for reef, but in a nano. That stuff will last me a year, and it’s the only thing you need to dose — just one solution. There is also a powdered version and other ways to make it DIY cheaper. Just starting out and w/few corals in the tank you shouldn’t be needing to use that much.

 

[keithw283]

What did you buy that cost that much? I got everything I need to start my 180G and I have a 55G already set up and I spent less than that. That's including my Apex, trident and 2 DOS pumps I got.

 

[NickSc]

That's sounds like a ton of money. You can run a reef tank on a budget. The key is to get the tank stable which only time can do. The best way is start up with live rock. As for equipment, you only really need lights and a power head. You don't need the best.

 

[Idech]

I don't use Hanna test kits. I don't even know what test kits I have but they were probably 15 bucks and last me about a year because I rarely test.

I know what I put in my water so there is no reason to test every week.

You have so much experience, I can see why you’re not testing. I’m new at saltwater, and my magnesium and calcium are going down, so I need to test once a week to help keep my corals alive.

The goal is to stop testing when the tank is mature enough and I know what I’m doing.

You need the testas a beginner, big time. I cycled w/API then moved on to Salifert for Alk/Cal/Mag. Then got the Alk/Nitrate/Phosphate Hanna testers finally and am 100% glad I did. You should be testing at least weekly on a younger tank, but it will slow down as the tank matures.

My thought exactly.

I also use all for reef, but in a nano. That stuff will last me a year, and it’s the only thing you need to dose — just one solution.

That’s what I chose for my 75 gallons. I went with the powder and 800 g should last me 10-12 months, so that’s reasonable I think. That’s like 8$/month.

What did you buy that cost that much? I got everything I need to start my 180G and I have a 55G already set up and I spent less than that.

I have listed it a few pages earlier. Take a look. Just ball park but it gives you an idea.

As for equipment, you only really need lights and a power head. You don't need the best.

Stuff is more expensive in Canada. I went with AI Prime 16 HD with hard mount (have 2 but will need 4) and Nero 3, Nero 5, Koralia (as back up for now) and Tunze pumps. The Tunze was given to me.

Just that is around 1500$ for the lights and 700$ for the 3 pumps, total 2 200$. I could have went with cheap Sunsun pumps but to me it’s wasted money. I wanted pumps that I can control.

 

[Paul B]

I can see why you’re not testing. I’m new at saltwater, and my magnesium and calcium are going down, so I need to test once a week to help keep my corals alive.

I think you can safely do without a magnesium test kit. I have never tested magnesium and never will.
A couple of times a year I dump in a box of Epsom salt and forget about it. (In a 125 gallon tank) But if you change water you don't even have to do that.

I also never checked pH, iodine, phosphates or much of anything else even when I was a total Noob.
I think calcium and alk are important as they get used up but the rest of that stuff never has to be tested, in like never.

Your corals won't even know.

But I also like Nero powerheads. I have a Nero 5 and Nero 3. Those two together cost around 600$. For 2 powerheads !

Like something else. I think I have 5 or 6 powerheads and all together they don't cost that. I also probably got some used.

If I can spend about 200$ per month for corals for a while until the tank looks full enough, I’ll be happy.

Your lfs must love you. You spent more in a few months on this than I spent in the last 50 years and my reef is pretty adequate.

 

[Idech]

Your lfs must love you. You spent more in a few months on this than I spent in the last 50 years and my reef is pretty adequate

Hum, how did you fill your tank with corals then ? I mean, once it’s filled, I won’t have to buy anymore, but I have to start somewhere.

Around here, for 200$, you get 5 small frags. One head per coral. Maybe 6 if you‘re lucky. I only buy the most reasonably priced corals, between 15$-30$. When someone advertises corals on social media, I buy that also. Only the ones at 20$ or 25$ a piece.

I think that’s very reasonable.

The pumps, yeah, they’re expensive. But they work on my tablet or iphone, and they practically can make breakfast for me. So they were a good buy. For me.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I think you can safely do without a magnesium test kit. I have never tested magnesium and never will.
A couple of times a year I dump in a box of Epsom salt and forget about it. (In a 125 gallon tank) But if you change water you don't even have to do that.

I also never checked pH, iodine, phosphates or much of anything else even when I was a total Noob.
I think calcium and alk are important as they get used up but the rest of that stuff never has to be tested, in like never.

Your corals won't even know.


Like something else. I think I have 5 or 6 powerheads and all together they don't cost that. I also probably got some used.

Your lfs must love you. You spent more in a few months on this than I spent in the last 50 years and my reef is pretty adequate.

You've been at this 50 years Paul. Myself 25, and to be honest I'm surprised you are coming at it in this way. Some of your retorts which is what they are, sound like some kind of victory lap over a newb. Why? It's silly imo...

 

[LPS Bum]

Thats an awful lot of money to spend considering you said already had the tank and stand.

You need rock and (if you want it) sand. They’re not cheap but they’re not 4 figures either. You need to heat the water and move it. You can accomplish that with a few cheap power heads from Amazon and a $35 Jaeger heater. You need capable reef lighting, but you probably don’t need Radions. A couple of AI Primes would work for most mixed reefs. Those are only about $200 each.

You need to export wastes, and a solid HOB skimmer and weekly water changes (salt mix and rodi water) will do it. An ATO is a good choice too. That’s really about it.

What did you spend $10K on, and what other equipment do you feel you need?

 

[Jeffcb]

Yes

 

[Paul B]

Hum, how did you fill your tank with corals then ?

Very slowly over many years. They grow

The pumps, yeah, they’re expensive. But they work on my tablet or iphone, and they practically can make breakfast for me. So they were a good buy. For me.

I realize that, but you are asking if this has to be a money pit, then you are buying pumps that can make you breakfast. Lunch would be better. Anyway, a pump pumps and thats all it needs to do. There is no need to control it, especially from your phone. Use your phone to call your friends and invite them over to see your dynamite reef build. Just buy a pump that pushes the amount of water you want pushed and forget about it. It doesn't have to be expensive.

Some of your retorts which is what they are, sound like some kind of victory lap over a newb.

CanuckReefer. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I am trying to help this Noob and show him that while he is going broke at this and seems to know that, he is throwing money away and he doesn't have to.

The title of this thread is "Does this have to be a perpetual money pit" then he goes on to say things like he needs to spend $600.00 for two pumps that he can control on his phone. Does anyone need to do that?

Pumps are cheap, they last 5 or 6 years and you buy another one. There is not much sense complaining about the cost of things just because you want the most expensive equipment out there and plan to spend $200.00 a month on corals. You can of course, but most of us will go broke doing that.

I have a fairly large boat and it is expensive. I can afford so much but if I can't afford it any more, I sell it. I won't go on a boating forum and complain how expensive it is because like reefing, no one needs a boat.

I would love to help Idech but he seems to want these expensive things that it seems he can't afford.
There is a much cheaper way to do it and he can learn about those things if he wants to. But not if he just wants expensive things for the sake of having expensive things that are not needed.

I am sorry if I came off as trying to do a Victory lap. My own tank certainly has some issues, but I realize (and Idech will learn) that throwing money at this will not resolve problems that will only resolve with experience and patience.

I want him to have a great tank as I can't stand to see anyone fail or go broke over a hobby.

 

[shakacuz]

the initial costs outweigh everything else. but once everything is settled and growing in, you can most definitely recuperate your initial investments.

personally, for a hobby, i don't care what the costs are as long as i feel fulfilled with what i am seeing. i am in this hobby for the sheer pleasure and discipline - but sometimes i do scratch my head and ask myself why did i ever spend so much on what i have..

 

[Lyss]

Paul makes good points. If you can’t afford it, you can do one of three things in my view:

1. Don’t have a reef tank
2. Buy less expensive but still well-made equipment
3. Save for the specific expensive equipment you really want — make a budget and put some money away each month until there is enough set away to buy the item

I disagree w/not needing to test mag and phosphate, etc, as a noob. If you want to be successful w/corals you need to know these values. Mag maybe not testing as frequently as alk and cal, but low mag can negatively impact the other two. If you have algae issues or want to start keeping SPS you need to know nitrate and phosphate. Once it’s all in line and the tank is mature, the need to test this stuff as frequently drops.

RE the Nero — I understand the desire for it b/c I bought one as well. I wanted the controllability that the cheaper pump I initially bought didn’t offer. I use settings for nutrient export at night, and various other settings on a timeline in the app during the day. Technology can be really helpful. But that means the cost goes up. So it’s something you need to either give up, or budget and save for.

If it feels like a money pit b/c things keep going wrong, then it’s time to evaluate what is going wrong and whether or not the fix truly requires so much spend.

Edit: I would also say, evaluate whether a problem is really that big of a problem. Initially stuff that seems dire really isn’t in the end sometimes. I’ve seen others post pics of algae problems they perceived and it was totally normal looking rocks. I’ve also messed up myself once (we mess up sometimes and that’s fine), and gave myself green cyano all over my sand. But rather than panic and buy a bunch of products I did a couple water changes and stopped doing what I’d been doing to encourage the cyano. Just for example.

 

[Paul B]

Mag maybe not testing as frequently as alk and cal, but low mag can negatively impact the other two. I

Yes it may, which is why I advised to throw in a box of Epsom Salt once or twice a year as I have been doing forever. I actually got that from Randy because I used his Calcium and alk home made mix for years and even he said to add Epsom salt occasionally. You really can't over dose it but you really don't need to test it. ASW comes with a load of the stuff.

Phosphate I never tested but you can test for it if you like. You can test for chicken soup too but it may not be needed to much. Especially if you change water

I like to make this hobby as simple as I can and we all know there are a myriad of things we can do and buy, but like any hobby many of them are not needed to have a successful reef.

I also believe the tanks with the most testing and tweeking are the ones with the most problems.

 

[Adam1985]

In short, I’ve concluded the same. It’s an expensive hobby.

Just ask yourself if it makes you happy to continue.

 

[snorklr]

whew...after re-reading this...the OP admitted to having emotional issues (anxiety disorder and a perfectionist)...loves gadgets and technology...has a physical disability that wont allow him to handle a bucket of salt ( or water)... is in a hurry to make this all work as he feels he will eventually be physically incapable of doing it at all....and is unable to DIY anything....so he's trying to buy the best of everything with an emphasis on automation in an attempt to make the hobby less physically demanding...and given this formula i believe the answer is "yes this hobby will be a perpetual money pit for you " and i'm very sorry to hear you have these issues and maybe the rewards of having a reef tank may not equal the heartaches of trying to achieve one