Juvi Emperor with puffy eyelid

[Wen]

Looking for opinions on how address a juvi emp with a puffy eyelid. General Tso is my favorite fish and I’ll go the extra, extra mile for this guy.

Here’s the story:
Treating all my fish for velvet currently.
Emp was in Qt ramping up copper power slowly for 10 days when I noticed him not eating as usual and a puffy eyelid.
Removed him from group and began treating with api e.m. Erythromycin, eye worsened over 4 days.
Removed from erythromycin.
Began and finished 5 days of maracyn2 (minocycline).

Today eye ball clear, but eyelid area sorta translucent and puffy.
Fish is eating and his spunky self.

Do I see how it heals with no meds in high quality water?
Do I treat a second round with maracyn2?
Do I try something else?

These first 2 pics from a week ago.

These pics from today.

What is happening here? Eyelid has gone from puffy to puffy and different.?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not a serious swelling. keep an eye on it. treatment would be maracyn based medication but dont believe irt is waranted, at least for now. Assure water quality is good and there is NO microbubbles.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Nice fish!

I agree with vetteguy, , the eye looks to be a minor issue - watch it, but if it doesn't worsen, I wouldn't treat it too aggressively. A couple of general observations -

There is no need to ramp up copper over 10 days. It actually can do more harm because the fish spend too much time in a sub-therapeutic dose and protozoans can gain the upperhand. This was simply one of those "good ideas" that then gets taken too far. I always ramp copper up in one single, accurate dose and then maintain it. The only time I take extra care is with Centropyge angels, and then I'll take 3 days max to hit a full dose. Think about this - these fish go through the supply chain and are often put right into full strength copper, and the time they are being highly stressed - as they are acclimated from overseas, yet they don't drop from that.

Another thing about sub-adult imperators, they are Neobenedenia fluke MAGNETS. They often pick this up as they go through the wholesale system. Have you had this fish for more than 3 months? If so, no need to worry about it, but this shows up around 3 to 5 weeks after getting a new fish and presents itself as cloudy eyes at first, then ragged fins, patchy skin and finally rapid breathing and death. A 5 minute FW dip can help diagnose that, the Neo will look like scales that have fallen off the fish.

Jay

 

[Wen]

Nice fish!

I agree with vetteguy, , the eye looks to be a minor issue - watch it, but if it doesn't worsen, I wouldn't treat it too aggressively. A couple of general observations -

There is no need to ramp up copper over 10 days. It actually can do more harm because the fish spend too much time in a sub-therapeutic dose and protozoans can gain the upperhand. This was simply one of those "good ideas" that then gets taken too far. I always ramp copper up in one single, accurate dose and then maintain it. The only time I take extra care is with Centropyge angels, and then I'll take 3 days max to hit a full dose. Think about this - these fish go through the supply chain and are often put right into full strength copper, and the time they are being highly stressed - as they are acclimated from overseas, yet they don't drop from that.

Another thing about sub-adult imperators, they are Neobenedenia fluke MAGNETS. They often pick this up as they go through the wholesale system. Have you had this fish for more than 3 months? If so, no need to worry about it, but this shows up around 3 to 5 weeks after getting a new fish and presents itself as cloudy eyes at first, then ragged fins, patchy skin and finally rapid breathing and death. A 5 minute FW dip can help diagnose that, the Neo will look like scales that have fallen off the fish.

Jay

Thanks Jay!

I’ve had the emp almost 6 months.

All my fish go through ttm, prazipro, (some get freshwater dips) and all get observation. There’s been no new fish until ...the last fish came from a “quarantined vender”, my mistake for taking someone’s word. Not sure if the velvet came from that new wrasse or a Keys live rock order.

Anyhow, I raised copper for a total of 5 days , and on the 10th day noticed the emp appetite change. The copper Qt is going pretty good with 13 fish in it, but my concern is General Tso’s eye. Maybe it got damaged when I netted him out of the DT or maybe infection from the Qt.

In the first photos note his left eyelid, compared to the last photos. The eyelid is different. What do you think is going on?

 

[Wen]

first photo

after minocycline...left eye lid less swollen but translucent, right eyelid more swollen then first pic.

thank you for your opinion...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I would suggest to not to catch up the fish unless absolutely needed, it is only going to aggravate the eye more.
I see the issue, but I just don’t think it is severe enough to take the risk of a full antibiotic treatment. How long did you dose with the minocycline? Have you thought about erythromycin?

Jay

 

[Wen]

I would suggest to not to catch up the fish unless absolutely needed, it is only going to aggravate the eye more.
I see the issue, but I just don’t think it is severe enough to take the risk of a full antibiotic treatment. How long did you dose with the minocycline? Have you thought about erythromycin?

Jay

Good morning and thanks for the advice.
The fish had full treatment of erythro and a full treatment of mino, so hopefully time to heal is all it needs.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long was the erythro treatment? Do you know the dose? Minocycline gets bound up with the calcium in seawater, so is better as an oral med for marine fish.

Jay