Let's have a discussion about "The Name Game"

[PacificEastAquaculture]

It's all a marketing game. If you can convince someone something is special and create a desire for it, people will plop down stupid amounts of money in an effort to be "exclusive" and part of the "in" crowd. It's like owning Beats headphones, or a Range Rover, etc. There are better alternatives for less, but that doesn't matter because driving your Range Rover with your $300 headphones on makes you "cool". Being in the D.C./Baltimore area, you see it everyday. People in $60k-$100k cars around here are a dime a dozen and many of these people are living paycheck to paycheck so they feel like they look successful and fit in with their neighbor who has the same car.

Keep doing what you're doing. I'm already waiting for another video of the new shipment so I can start picking my next pieces. By the way, I'm looking for a gold Indo torch and maybe a red Acanthophyllia . I say just let people know how long a piece has been in captive conditions, that way people have a realistic expectation if the coral is viable or if the piece may color shift, and are aware of the risk. Heck, you can't even trust names anyway. You see vendors all the time putting designer names on fresh collected pieces that resemble established captive held colonies.

So true, totally marketing, and brilliant at that. Like I said, pyramid scheme. "If I buy from Jim Bob's designer corals at $1500 per inch, I'll grow it out and make enough to pay for my entire tank." Problem is you're not Jim Bob and by the time you grow it out the price has dropped because a dozen or two other guys had the same idea. And beside, the $1500 frag never looked like it did in Jim Bob's photos, hahaha!

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

As I am just recently setting up my reef, my comment may not be warranted but nevertheless here it is.

Speaking for myself,
I am less than impressed with corals that have a fancy name and high priced tag. As they have no true pedigree whose lineage can be traced back to the first speciman collected by Columbus.
AFIK ( I could be wrong here) they can't be line, and inbred in an effort to better some traits and eliminate bad traits, like other living creatures.

If you have 50 of the same frags listed for sale. 25 given a commonly accepted name at a reasonable price. The other 25 listed with some off the wall name at a price 4 to 5 times higher and a tag describing both as being from the same colony and continued that practice. Only then will people come around to the fact that they have been duped into paying big $$$ for a few more letters in the alphabet.

It probably wont go over well with other distributers. I say sc×+w em. They are the dishonest preying on the unsuspecting/uneducated.

If you did that, I would buy from you, as well as do what I could to convince others to do so as well.

Just my rambling thoughts.

All the corals originate from the same place, the ocean and they didn't just appear magically in Jim Bob's basement. But because Jim Bob was the first to "release it" to the hobby forever afterward it will be called Jim Bob's Radioactive Blue Wowza Acropora and have true "lineage", hahaha! Right on, GROOVY!!

 

[tripdad]

If you go all the way back to when the first "name" was placed on a coral there was a purpose. The coral was a strong, successful variant at a time when corals were hard to keep and so people wanted to be sure they were getting "that" coral. This to me is the only reason to name a coral, to guarantee lineage. Chopping up a new wild piece before you even know how it will perform in captivity and selling frags for $XXX is just dumb. We have to name things so that we know what we're buying but two guys naming the same blue tenuis different names and selling for drastically different amounts is nuts. I like your post very much. I also feel there a some reasonable, solid vendors out there who are fair. We, as consumers, need to seek them out, buy from them, make them a success. Then we have used our collective economic power to weed out the bad ones. It's on us, the consumer, if we don't like what's happening then change it.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

If you go all the way back to when the first "name" was placed on a coral there was a purpose. The coral was a strong, successful variant at a time when corals were hard to keep and so people wanted to be sure they were getting "that" coral. This to me is the only reason to name a coral, to guarantee lineage. Chopping up a new wild piece before you even know how it will perform in captivity and selling frags for $XXX is just dumb. We have to name things so that we know what we're buying but two guys naming the same blue tenuis different names and selling for drastically different amounts is nuts. I like your post very much. I also feel there a some reasonable, solid vendors out there who are fair. We, as consumers, need to seek them out, buy from them, make them a success. Then we have used our collective economic power to weed out the bad ones. It's on us, the consumer, if we don't like what's happening then change it.

As a vendor, change is difficult and could be suicide from a business standpoint. The designer so-called high end coral trend is very much a reality here to stay. I've traveled to many areas and set up coral and clam farms in some including the Solomon Islands, French Polynesia, Indonesia, etc. and without exception the name game and increased prices due to it follows everywhere.

 

[karo25]

I'm new to reefing and couldn't care less about the name of the coral. Perhaps that will change with time, but I highly doubt it. I buy based on price, how the coral looks and the reputation of the vendor and that's it.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I'm new to reefing and couldn't care less about the name of the coral. Perhaps that will change with time, but I highly doubt it. I buy based on price, how the coral looks and the reputation of the vendor and that's it.

Excellent!

 

[dragon99]

I purposely won't by a mickey mouse frag because of its name. It's still just a tenuis acro and I've seen many similar to it that don't have the 10x markup.

Names are good overall though. Things like green slimer, red planet, shortcake etc have set a standard of expectations for what you get. Unfortunately the game has escalated to naming every new wild colony something different, and "releasing" something that really is probably already widely available.

I would absolutely support a vendor who makes an effort to tone down the hype and stick to purposeful naming. Species naming as you mention is problematic, but we need something to reference other than "blue acro".

 

[mfinn]

No doubt about the destiny of the two frags you mention. But, Actually the name game started way before anyone ever thought about using LED for an aquarium.

Could it have been started with PPE's, aka Purple People Eaters?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I purposely won't by a mickey mouse frag because of its name. It's still just a tenuis acro and I've seen many similar to it that don't have the 10x markup.

Names are good overall though. Things like green slimer, red planet, shortcake etc have set a standard of expectations for what you get. Unfortunately the game has escalated to naming every new wild colony something different, and "releasing" something that really is probably already widely available.

I would absolutely support a vendor who makes an effort to tone down the hype and stick to purposeful naming. Species naming as you mention is problematic, but we need something to reference other than "blue acro".

Excellent post, understand and agree!

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Could it have been started with PPE's, aka Purple People Eaters?

I think Tyree might have been first and then Reefer Madness did the silly cute names and made it very popular. At that time I was still doing Blue Acro tenuis type naming and quite ridiculed for it at the time. In those days no LEDs existed for tanks, 400 watt Radium MH were what the in crowd used, including me.

 

[mfinn]

I think Tyree might have been first and then Reefer Madness did the silly cute names and made it very popular. At that time I was still doing Blue Acro tenuis type naming and quite ridiculed for it at the time. In those days no LEDs existed for tanks, 400 watt Radium MH were what the in crowd used, including me.

Oh that's right. I remember the web pages with the names Tyree gave some of his corals and the wait lists.
My tanks were smaller so I used 250 watt Radium bulbs.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

As much as folks moan about it, my King's Ransom story previously in this thread will hold true, I get that all the time at swaps. Folks see something they like, it's priced very reasonably, but they will not buy it unless it has a designer name. It's a reality of the hobby. Bucking the trend as a vendor is very tough!

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Oh that's right. I remember the web pages with the names Tyree gave some of his corals and the wait lists.
My tanks were smaller so I used 250 watt Radium bulbs.

Still great to use, problem is they shift in color within about 6 months, I remember paying a small fortune to constantly replace them

 

[tautog83]

the name game extends to some vendors as well and to me thats really the sad part. its sad mainly because whatever vendor has a good reputation when you google them , so a newbie reefer goes o well it has their name in front of it so obviously its the best! when in reality a green slimer or an ora of birds of paradise is the same coral from john , bob, mary, whoever. literally saw a inch an half piece of birds of paradise selling for $80 the other day. "their variety, is so such more vibrant , blah blah its just a gimmick. the corals are living things and nobody can predict how its going to do in your tank. i mean sure there is a difference between healthy and a not healthy specimen but thats really where it should end.

 

[Clownman727]

There are good things about naming and bad as well. Let's say you buy a blue acropora frag from a vendor and ask what will this look like when it grows out into a colony? Will it be a tabling or branching verity? That may not be known to the vendor because they hadn't seen a grown out colony. Now how should I place this in my aquarium and give it the room it needs to grow and be happy. But If you buy a blue acropora called "Oregon tort" you can see pictures all over the place of what it willl be when it grows out. I think this is where names are a good thing. However, when vendors have a less known blue acropora and just pick a random name like "alien juice" because as a frag in a macro shot looks amazing! So they sell for high dollars. And you have no clue what a grown out colony will look like. Could be awesome but most likely it will just look like an average blue acro that you could get for $10. The pictures posted on Facebook and forums are doctored and the human eye can't even see some of the details showing up in the pictures. Which helps hype up these corals.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

the name game extends to some vendors as well and to me thats really the sad part. its sad mainly because whatever vendor has a good reputation when you google them , so a newbie reefer goes o well it has their name in front of it so obviously its the best! when in reality a green slimer or an ora of birds of paradise is the same coral from john , bob, mary, whoever. literally saw a inch an half piece of birds of paradise selling for $80 the other day. "their variety, is so such more vibrant , blah blah its just a gimmick. the corals are living things and nobody can predict how its going to do in your tank. i mean sure there is a difference between healthy and a not healthy specimen but thats really where it should end.

You're correct. The name game has really draped a cloud over the hobby. Many folks obviously love it, just look through the hobbyist for sale threads.

 

[Lovemyreef2015]

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Their are very few vendors that would be as honest as you. Please know when we take care of our pyramid snail problem, you will be the company that we buy our next clam from. We will also be checking out your corals. I love that red goni you had for sale. I was amazed at the price because I've seen other sell them as flaming red or other "names" for triple that. It's companies like you that keep this hobby going. Thank you

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

There are good things about naming and bad as well. Let's say you buy a blue acropora frag from a vendor and ask what will this look like when it grows out into a colony? Will it be a tabling or branching verity? That may not be known to the vendor because they hadn't seen a grown out colony. Now how should I place this in my aquarium and give it the room it needs to grow and be happy. But If you buy a blue acropora called "Oregon tort" you can see pictures all over the place of what it willl be when it grows out. I think this is where names are a good thing. However, when vendors have a less known blue acropora and just pick a random name like "alien juice" because as a frag in a macro shot looks amazing! So they sell for high dollars. And you have no clue what a grown out colony will look like. Could be awesome but most likely it will just look like an average blue acro that you could get for $10. The pictures posted on Facebook and forums are doctored and the human eye can't even see some of the details showing up in the pictures. Which helps hype up these corals.

Excellent point you bring up about lighting. As a vendor it's impossible to post photos so the coral will look the same in every tank due to so many types and settings of lighting. I actually did a video about it recently:

 

[tripdad]

As a vendor, change is difficult and could be suicide from a business standpoint. The designer so-called high end coral trend is very much a reality here to stay. I've traveled to many areas and set up coral and clam farms in some including the Solomon Islands, French Polynesia, Indonesia, etc. and without exception the name game and increased prices due to it follows everywhere.

I realize as a vendor it is a market driven situation for you, and yes, it is a business so you have to go along with it to some extent or perish. In my business, collector cars, I have seen the same pressures at work. Cars we couldn't give away 15years ago now go for $250,000.00. It still boils down to one rule of business. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay. You want to change the price, then you have to change the market. I think names are good for guaranteeing consistency of product from vendor to vendor. Beyond that, not so much. It is up to those who consume to keep the market in check. JMO
P.S. As I sasid before, I do applaud your post and your position.

 

[KIRBLIT]

Love this topic. I know this naming thing started out innocent but it has turned into a nightmare.