Major plumbing problems with new setup

[PNWCoralFarmer]

I think the only way you're going to make any real difference in your flow is to increase drain diameter. The 1 inch pipe can only handle so much water even in a full siphon. Save yourself time and fix the drain pipes now.

I am limited by the by the overflow box:
https://www.reefsavvy.com/product/21-ghost-overflow-2to3-week-lead-time

It has 1 inch drains out of the back. Will I gain from converting from 1 inch fitting to 1.5 inch pipe?

 

[lmm1967]

Just curious why either the 1 inch pipe or the horizontal gate valve would cause me to have a siphon that is limited to ~600gph?

I'll do what needs to be done to get it to work, I jsut want to make sure it will be the final time I have to do plumbing :)

you may not really be developing a true full siphon - if there is air trapped in the line you do not have a siphon.

 

[Brandon Wilcox]

This is from a previous post.

 

[Brandon Wilcox]

Sorry I lied. Here's where that chart from my previous post comes from.
http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/aquarium-plumbing-basics/

 

[lmm1967]

"Something to keep in mind with this design:
A submerged drain that is running at a full siphon will handle MUCH MORE flow than a similar drain that allows air in. This setup, with the 1" bulkheads and 1.5" down plumbing will easily handle 2000 GPH silently with plenty of headroom to spare, while still keeping the emergency overflow dry. Try that with two Stockman or Durso standpipes!"

Directly from http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

 

[Foothill Corals]

Just curious why either the 1 inch pipe or the horizontal gate valve would cause me to have a siphon that is limited to ~600gph?

I'll do what needs to be done to get it to work, I jsut want to make sure it will be the final time I have to do plumbing :)

With the flow you are looking for (2000gph) I think calls for 1 1/2". Especially if you are having issues at 600-700.

The valve may or my not be an issue I am not sure. I have always put them on vertical pipes. It will always work better with the valve closer to the end (sump end) of the pipe IME

Also the end of the pipe should only be submerged a half inch or so in the sump.

 

[PNWCoralFarmer]

So it sounds like the consensus is that I should convert to 1.5" pipe after the 1" quick connects on the overflow box, use some 45's instead of 90's to reduce the horizontal runs from the back of the tank to the wall pass through(like post #3). I can then mount the pvc clamps brackets to the top of the pass through instead of the bottom(see pic below where they are mounted to the bottom of the pass through rather than the top). This will at least give me a few inches of drop along the last horizontal section. Finally install a 1.5" gate valve in the final vertical section that runs in to the sump. Does that sound right? Id like to avoid doing this a third time :P

 

[PNWCoralFarmer]

Of course formufit colored PVC only goes up to 1.25" .. sigh

 

[Foothill Corals]

How far under water (in sump) is the end of the siphon pipe rite now? After looking at the pics again it looks like it is too far under water.

 

[PNWCoralFarmer]

About 3/4 inch

 

[Foothill Corals]

About 3/4 inch

It looked like more.

One last observation is it looks like your siphon line has two horizontal runs, one on either side of the wall. The other line may be better for the siphon since it is sloped with only one horizontal pipe.

 

[bblumberg]

Sorry I lied. Here's where that chart from my previous post comes from.
http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/aquarium-plumbing-basics/

This conflicts with the information you can find on Bean's site - see http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx also linked by lmm1967 above.

The flow should also be a function of the vertical drop if running as a full siphon with the outlet pipe down into the sump as the OP has. I have two 150g tanks of similar configuration. One of those runs a Mag 18 return through 1" pipe and the other runs a Waveline DC1000II, also through 1" pipe. Each of these tanks has ~ 48" of drop from the water level in the overflow to the outlet of the pipe in the sump with 2 or 3 90 degree elbows. I have to seriously throttle the gate valve on the full siphon (probably about half way closed) to keep some water running through the open channel. I have never had water in the emergency.

 

[steveaus10]

I added a second overflow now I must regulate return to achieve a sufficient amount of water in sump not sure of capacity of my return pump but it would or was too much without 2nd overflow it is not variable and I have never measured but dt seems to be fine as it is

 

[CC13]

Of course formufit colored PVC only goes up to 1.25" .. sigh

Use flex PVC and you can paint it with Krylon if you really want after:

https://www.savko.com/collections/p...white-flexible-pvc-tubing?variant=12155872065

 

[chill903]

About 3/4 inch

When building my Reef Savvy box, the depth of my drain pipes made a *huge* difference in flow. When it was submerged too deep, flow was poor. Once I shortened it to an inch or so, I could throttle my 1” gate valve quite a bit and achieve a good Bean Animal siphon.

Maybe try closing the gate valve a little and seeing what you can achieve before replumbing the setup.

 

[George Lopez]

Are you sure you have all the air out of the line? I started my siphon by first closing the valve all the way and only following through my emergency then slowly opening the valve until I didn't have any water flowing through the emergency anymore to make sure I got rid of all of my air. (Herbie style not bean)

 

[CC13]

Are you sure you have all the air out of the line? I started my siphon by first closing the valve all the way and only following through my emergency then slowly opening the valve until I didn't have any water flowing through the emergency anymore to make sure I got rid of all of my air. (Herbie style not bean)

The problem lies with the size of the pipe used, and the horizontal runs. The water is essentially backing up as it slows down and is being 'pushed' by the water behind it causing more backup and free flowing with gravity.

 

[jtl]

I agree that the problem is most likely the horizontal runs, especially in relation to the vertical drop. Interestingly a while ago BRS did a comparison of using 90's vs a pair of 45's and there was no meaningful difference all things being equal. However if you can achieve some slope than I assume that using 45's would be better.

 

[CC13]

I agree that the problem is most likely the horizontal runs, especially in relation to the vertical drop. Interestingly a while ago BRS did a comparison of using 90's vs a pair of 45's and there was no meaningful difference all things being equal. However if you can achieve some slope than I assume that using 45's would be better.

I think I saw that video also and that was water being pumped from a return pump if I am not mistaken? If its the same video I am thinking of, the water coming from the return pump is under pressure. Water from an overflow is flowing under gravity so laws of physics apply and would give different results.

Water lines should always be sloped.

 

[jtl]

I think I saw that video also and that was water being pumped from a return pump if I am not mistaken? If its the same video I am thinking of, the water coming from the return pump is under pressure. Water from an overflow is flowing under gravity so laws of physics apply and would give different results.

Maybe....maybe not. In both cases the water is being pumped/flowed at a constant rate and the variable is the transition.