Major Sump water level issues for 2 years

[Eggpaul]

Also, the felt socks I use are 100 micron. Is that an issue?

 

[Beefyreefy]

Also, the felt socks I use are 100 micron. Is that an issue?

I personally don't run any mechanical filtration so I cant help you there.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Also, I know I don't have a gate valve, but not sure if that's the problem.

I'd like to explore this comment. From the pictures it looks like youhave a beananimal or herbie return system. Are you saying that your full siphon DOES NOT have a gate valve?

The constant fluctuation you described in the first post suggest that the section your return pump sits is in constant flux, which can be caused by an unregulated flow through the sump. If you don't have a means to regulate flow at a constant your sump will experience that fluctuation. And that will cause your ATO to act as you described.

In this photo, does the water level stay constant or does it fluctuate as well?

 

[Eggpaul]

I'd like to explore this comment. From the pictures it looks like youhave a beananimal or herbie return system. Are you saying that your full siphon DOES NOT have a gate valve?

The constant fluctuation you described in the first post suggest that the section your return pump sits is in constant flux, which can be caused by an unregulated flow through the sump. If you don't have a means to regulate flow at a constant your sump will experience that fluctuation. And that will cause your ATO to act as you described.

In this photo, does the water level stay constant or does it fluctuate as well?

It is a full siphon. I understand what you are saying but the level in the return chamber is constant UNTIL water is added. It obviously rises when I add water, but then a few minutes later it lowers again and fills the DT higher. Then it stays constant until there is more evaporation. Can it really be the the valve? I feel like I've figured out where exactly is the sweet spot for the full siphon (on the valve) to start. It seems to run smoothly.

On your question bout the water level in the overflow. I'll have to check, but I think it goes up and down with the DT.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I think something is up with your return pump and drain not working right together. Could be the sock (I doubt it). Have you experimented with throttling down your return?

 

[Eggpaul]

I think something is up with your return pump and drain not working right together. Could be the sock (I doubt it). Have you experimented with throttling down your return?

I can try that too.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Based on your response, my 2 top candidates would be that the return pump isn't maintaining a constant flow, the flow is fluctuating giving you the inconsistent water level, and the other is the need for a gate valve in order to fine tune the water flow through the full siphon. I would suspect that the water level is changing in the overflow as well which points the finger at one of those 2 as being the culprit.

Are you running a beananimal (3 drain pipes) or a herbie (2 drain pipes). I'm sorta hoping for bean animal but your description leads me believe it's a herbie, which is more of a reason to have a gate valve for fine tuning on your full siphon.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

While you're at it, can you give clarification of what's the pipe that goes up from the return pump with the ball valve on it? Is that just one of the 2 returns? Or is it for something else?

 

[Eggpaul]

Based on your response, my 2 top candidates would be that the return pump isn't maintaining a constant flow, the flow is fluctuating giving you the inconsistent water level, and the other is the need for a gate valve in order to fine tune the water flow through the full siphon. I would suspect that the water level is changing in the overflow as well which points the finger at one of those 2 as being the culprit.

Are you running a beananimal (3 drain pipes) or a herbie (2 drain pipes). I'm sorta hoping for bean animal but your description leads me believe it's a herbie, which is more of a reason to have a gate valve for fine tuning on your full siphon.

But the water level is always consistent unless there is evaporation of course, and if I add water. Adding water causes the level to rise correctly, but then after 10-15 minutes goes back down and raises the DT. But the rest of the day if I don't do anything levels are constant as far as I know. I'll have to pay more attention to the overflow area.
I am running a herbie- 1 main drain pipe and then another emergency overflow that is above the water line.

 

[Eggpaul]

While you're at it, can you give clarification of what's the pipe that goes up from the return pump with the ball valve on it? Is that just one of the 2 returns? Or is it for something else?

Oh, that is for the canister in the picture. You can see the small white tube that is connected to it. For carbon and GFO, but that is usually off. when it is turned on it does change the water level in the chamber.

 

[Eggpaul]

If I do change to a gate valve I probably have to cut the pipe because those ends are glued in

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I don't think this is super complicated. The fact is your dt water level should not be able to raise much above your drain pipe. If it does raise then your drain is having trouble keeping up and needs fixed by reducing the return pump flow or fixing whatever is slowing the drain (maybe the drain is too small.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Oh, that is for the canister in the picture. You can see the small white tube that is connected to it. For carbon and GFO, but that is usually off. when it is turned on it does change the water level in the chamber.

This changed things, have you tried closing the gate valve that goes through the canister to see if it fixes your problem?

The reason for this is to rule out that the restriction inside the canister is or is not constantly changing.

I would venture to say that it's not a good idea to manifold off your main return pump because as the canister starts to clog it will divert the amount of flow through the display, this may point to the reason why it's taking longer for it to fluctuate throughout the display tank as well as the return section in the sump.

 

[Eggpaul]

I don't think this is super complicated. The fact is your dt water level should not be able to raise much above your drain pipe. If it does raise then your drain is having trouble keeping up and needs fixed by reducing the return pump flow or fixing whatever is slowing the drain (maybe the drain is too small.

I will keep this in mind. Maybe I can reduce the return pump flow. That might be the problem. The ball valve on the drain pipe is more than 3/4 closed, because if I open it anymore the drain gets too noisy. I have it at a point where it is silent, but maybe too narrow so the drain can't keep up with the pump?

 

[Eggpaul]

This changed things, have you tried closing the gate valve that goes through the canister to see if it fixes your problem?

I've always left that valve open, but the canister has a smaller ball valve on the line which is closed until I open it to use the GFO/carbon. I'll try closing the larger ball valve.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I've always left that valve open, but the canister has a smaller ball valve on the line which is closed until I open it to use the GFO/carbon. I'll try closing the larger ball valve.

The reason for this is to rule out that the restriction inside the canister is or is not constantly changing.

I would venture to say that it's not a good idea to manifold off your main return pump because as the canister starts to clog it will divert the amount of flow through the display, this may point to the reason why it's taking longer for it to fluctuate throughout the display tank as well as the return section in the sump.

 

[Snoopy 67]

Eliminate the canister, put it on its own pump, 1 possible problem solved.
Replace the ball valve for finer control, another 2 possible problems solved.
Take the sock out, another possible 3 problems solved.
Herbie's do have a tendency to fluctuate in the overflow somewhat affecting sump level.
You might have to allow for this. Process of elimination is the only way.

 

[WVNed]

How much does the water level in the return section change when you top it up? You are actually changing the head height the pump has to work against. So if the return section is full the pump will pump more water because of the reduced head pressure.

When you add water and the DT level goes up does it go back down as the water evaporates?

 

[Eggpaul]

How much does the water level in the return section change when you top it up? You are actually changing the head height the pump has to work against. So if the return section is full the pump will pump more water because of the reduced head pressure.

When you add water and the DT level goes up does it go back down as the water evaporates?

So If I add enough water to raise the level by about 2 inches, I will notice the level drop about an inch 15-20 minutes later.

On your 2nd question- The DT level doesn't go down as the water evaporates, the sump does. That's why my ATO keeps going on.

I am going to try all these suggestions and get back to everyone in a few days.

 

[Eggpaul]

Eliminate the canister, put it on its own pump, 1 possible problem solved.
Replace the ball valve for finer control, another 2 possible problems solved.
Take the sock out, another possible 3 problems solved.
Herbie's do have a tendency to fluctuate in the overflow somewhat affecting sump level.
You might have to allow for this. Process of elimination is the only way.

If I eliminate the canister can I just leave that ball valve there in closed position? Unless I have to cut the ball valve out and put in a new pipe?

I will order a gate valve.