Mangrove Owners Needed! Lagoon tank build and stocking questions.

[VSVP bet]

Thanks for your help. I will likely draft plans for the tank later today, I will post them and I'd love some feedback.

 

[VSVP bet]

Before I take my time to draft a design on a computer program, I put together this crude drawing. Likely the design will not change much from this (unless others with mangrove tanks offer suggestions), but I think this should work.

As stated previously, I wish to construct a breeder style tank. As per @fish farmer 's suggestion, I will have a 3 inch sand bed with around 3/4 inches of water. There will be an additional 3/4 inches of clearance, this will prevent fish/livestock from jumping as there will be no lid. The filter box will sit recessed in the tank, I have not come up with the dimensions yet for the filter box, but they should resemble something like that of my 33long build (see the last picture).

Please offer any and all suggestions.

 

[TessGlo]

Love this, looking froward to following along, I've been curious what it really takes to get mangroves growing.

 

[ReefInskeep]

I did a lot of kayaking in the brackish area along the Atlantic coast when I was last in Florida & brought home some red mangrove props that I found washed ashore on concrete pads that probably wouldn’t have lived.

I put them in a bucket, changed the water daily while still in FL, wrapped them in wet paper & put them in a cooler, drove 1.5 days home, and just put them in a 10g nano I’ve got without acclimating them. The 10g is shallow so most of the tops were well above the waterline.

75% of them survived and are thriving, surprisingly. Just under an AI Hydra 52HD (running maybe 25%), in maybe 1.5” of Fiji pink sand, standard reef salinity, (very occasionally) spray RODI on them, and that’s it. They’re hardier than I expected. They’ve grown quite a bit in just the last 7-8 months.

So, don’t worry too much.

 

[VSVP bet]

I did a lot of kayaking in the brackish area along the Atlantic coast when I was last in Florida & brought home some red mangrove props that I found washed ashore on concrete pads that probably wouldn’t have lived.

I put them in a bucket, changed the water daily while still in FL, wrapped them in wet paper & put them in a cooler, drove 1.5 days home, and just put them in a 10g nano I’ve got without acclimating them.

75% of them survived and are thriving, surprisingly. Just under an AI Hydra 52HD (running maybe 25%), in maybe 1.5” of Fiji pink sand, standard reef salinity, (very occasionally) spray RODI on them, and that’s it. They’re hardier than I expected. They’ve grown quite a bit in just the last 7-8 months.

So, don’t worry too much.

Thanks for the info.

 

[charlesP77]

Just tossing in what I’ve done. I have a 30 rimless breeder with a couple inches of sand plumbed to a common sump with my 75 reef. Started of with 15 or so propagules. Lost a few along the way.

I put small mesh pots in the sand to try to contain the roots - don’t want them to bust my tank open.

One mistake I initially made was having my black box led at max intensity. Couldn’t keep more than 2 leaves on each plant. They grew, but leaves kept burning. I finally wised up and turned it down to 30% and everyone is much happier.

I mist the leaves whenever I remember (once a week-ish).

 

[VSVP bet]

@charlesP77 That setup is awesome. I want my design to be almost exactly like that.

Did you first start growing the mangroves in another location and transfer them to that tank, or did you only grow them in the 30 rimless? I ask because I am unsure how the mangrove pods deal with water depth. I know that the top pod must be out of the water, but for roots to really develop, do they need to be in the sand? As I am building a tank around my mangroves, I only really want to do it once. I would hate to build a shallow system to accommodate pods, but then have to build a new one once they mature.

So I guess my main question deals with depth of the system.

 

[charlesP77]

Thanks for the kind words.

I started them all from pods in that tank. To encourage prop root growth, I first put in pvc pipes as stakes and tied them lightly to the pipes to keep them suspended.

If I had it to do again, I would just stick them straight into the sand. I’ve read that they’ll grow faster and stronger that way. They’ll grow prop roots on their own later.

I think that they’ll grow out of the water, even if they’re initially submerged. I had a bunch of orange mangroves too (only 1 left) that I started submerged and they grew out.

Deeper sand bed (or a pot of something) may be better so that they’ll be better able to support themselves later.

 

[fish farmer]

Thanks for the kind words.

I started them all from pods in that tank. To encourage prop root growth, I first put in pvc pipes as stakes and tied them lightly to the pipes to keep them suspended.

If I had it to do again, I would just stick them straight into the sand. I’ve read that they’ll grow faster and stronger that way. They’ll grow prop roots on their own later.

I think that they’ll grow out of the water, even if they’re initially submerged. I had a bunch of orange mangroves too (only 1 left) that I started submerged and they grew out.

Deeper sand bed (or a pot of something) may be better so that they’ll be better able to support themselves later.

How old are your plants? I really like that you encouraged the prop root growth. I have minimal growth of prop roots on mine. One does have one but it is really close to the sandbed and not really noticeable.

 

[VSVP bet]

Ok, again sorry for the crude drawing. After hearing @fish farmer 's and @charlesP77 's experience, I think I'll change my plans a little bit. Does this idea sound crazy? I do not want to build a second tank, so I need to get the mangrove pods growing well, but have enough space for them to grow into. If I use ceramic pots with sand to elevate the pods, this should allow the pods to grow and root, while still keeping the pod tip out of the water.

Again, would love feedback or suggestions.

 

[fish farmer]

Depending on the size of the pot the roots may expand pretty quick. I remember pulling some of the first shoots that died on me, they had shot roots straight out in a star like pattern.

I think a basket type pot would be better. I did try some in pots they use for hydroponics and stuck them in a piece of rockwool. I remember that they did root, I was thinking along the same lines as you, root them but be able to move them.

 

[ewelch]

Here is a link to my small mangrove build .
I have learned a lot along the way .

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/micro-mangrove-build.331951/

This reminds me I haven’t done an update in awhile

 

[VSVP bet]

Here is a link to my small mangrove build .
I have learned a lot along the way .



Funny, I was actually looking at your build earlier. How old was your plant from the first picture in the bucket? Also, updates would be great. Id love to see what it looks like now.

(picture cred @ewelch )

 

[VSVP bet]

Here is a link to my small mangrove build .
I have learned a lot along the way .

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/micro-mangrove-build.331951/

This reminds me I haven’t done an update in awhile

Dont know why the earlier comment got messed up.... But I was saying I looked at your thread earlier. How old was the plant from your first picture? (Shown below pic cred @ewelch )

 

[ewelch]

At the time the picture was taken in the bucket it was about 2 years old if I remember correctly . I got it as a small shoot with two leaves . Grew it out in soil and fresh water until it reached the size I was looking for .

Over a couple of months I transitioned out of the soil to water only . Then slowy raised the salinity until I got to where I wanted .

Once they get some size on them they are pretty bullet proof . To me, pods are hit or miss . I guess it’s their size and also a lot of the pods I see for sale look like they have been put through the ringer

Just a quick shot of where it is today, sorry for the crappy phone picture

 

[VSVP bet]

At the time the picture was taken in the bucket it was about 2 years old if I remember correctly . I got it as a small shoot with two leaves . Grew it out in soil and fresh water until it reached the size I was looking for .

Over a couple of months I transitioned out of the soil to water only . Then slowy raised the salinity until I got to where I wanted .

Once they get some size on them they are pretty bullet proof . To me, pods are hit or miss . I guess it’s their size and also a lot of the pods I see for sale look like they have been put through the ringer

Just a quick shot of where it is today, sorry for the crappy phone picture

Wow, that thing is a big body. Sorry to bombard you with questions, what about the roots? Obviously, the "branches" leaving the central stalk balance the plant, but when the "branches" go into the sand, do they turn into roots? (I'm assuming yes). And in a tank that size, is the sand bed almost all roots?

 

[ewelch]

Wow, that thing is a big body. Sorry to bombard you with questions, what about the roots? Obviously, the "branches" leaving the central stalk balance the plant, but when the "branches" go into the sand, do they turn into roots? (I'm assuming yes). And in a tank that size, is the sand bed almost all roots?

I have been playing with Mangroves for around 6 years at this point . It took a lot of trial and error plus patience to get the shape I was looking for . Basically with it planted in soil, once a root system was developed I began to slowly raise the plant out of the soil . I believe this is what caused the prop roots(mainly the one big one) to develop.

Suprisingly the sand bed is still realitvly free of roots . Once I acclimated the plant to SW growth has be drastically reduced . Which I guess is a good thing for those delicate silicon seams .

I have been trimming the canopy in order to promote more outward growth instead of vertical . I am still learning where and how to prune to achomplish this . I have also been keeping most of the roots at bay with my trusty pair of siccors .

 

[VSVP bet]

I have been playing with Mangroves for around 6 years at this point . It took a lot of trial and error plus patience to get the shape I was looking for . Basically with it planted in soil, once a root system was developed I began to slowly raise the plant out of the soil . I believe this is what caused the prop roots(mainly the one big one) to develop.

Suprisingly the sand bed is still realitvly free of roots . Once I acclimated the plant to SW growth has be drastically reduced . Which I guess is a good thing for those delicate silicon seams .

I have been trimming the canopy in order to promote more outward growth instead of vertical . I am still learning where and how to prune to achomplish this . I have also been keeping most of the roots at bay with my trusty pair of siccors .

Faster growth in freshwater is interesting. My pods are growing in my fuge of my 90g reef, so the water is standard reef conditions. I wonder if the tank I construct should be on the fresh side to encourage growth, then I can manipulate salinity as needed. My only fear is that transferring the rooting pods from full salt to mostly fresh would shock them.

 

[ewelch]

Faster growth in freshwater is interesting. My pods are growing in my fuge of my 90g reef, so the water is standard reef conditions. I wonder if the tank I construct should be on the fresh side to encourage growth, then I can manipulate salinity as needed. My only fear is that transferring the rooting pods from full salt to mostly fresh would shock them.

With the smaller ones it’s always a risk but the transition can be done . Just make sure your pods are healthy and to make the changes VERY slowly .

 

[VSVP bet]

With the smaller ones it’s always a risk but the transition can be done . Just make sure your pods are healthy and to make the changes VERY slowly .

My pods are small but I'm assuming healthy. They all have rooted. Here is a picture. My hope was that suspended the pods would send out prop roots into the chaeto which would act as a loose substrate type thing.

(Ignore the Aiptasia, my shrimp eats it in my display so i don't bother removing it from the sump)