Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been bubble scrubbing at night. My DO would go from around 76% to around 96% while bubble scrubbing.

Thanks. Very interesting. How are you measuring it?

Did you also track pH?

How long does the O2 remain elevated after the bubbles stop?

Did you scrub during the day too, or only at night? Some reef tanks get supersaturated with O2 during the day, and such bubbling might reduce it. :)

 

[Salty1962]

This confused me a little because I always assumed surge was an increase in water volume, such as storm surge, from hurricanes, etc. and I assumed it can also mean the force produced by a wave, creating a surge of water, such as what happened in this video, which introduced fresh o2 into the water, directly into the reef. Regardless, if I used the word surge incorrectly, microbubbles do occur! :D Maybe you can clarify it for me, I tried to research it a little and couldn't find much on it, other than storm surge. I'm familiar with storm surge as I've handled hundreds of hurricane claims over the last 20 years.

This a basic article but I believe is applicable to this discussion. It states that water movement basically achieves the very items of discussion. I'm no expert but I do push a ton of water through my tank after reading this article and when I keep my other levels in check, I have a happy tank. I run an over sized skimmer and this also helps my O2 levels. JME.:)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/4/beginner

 

[malira]

What air diffuser are you bubblers using?

 

[Reeflogic]

I think most folks are using the Lee's brand limewood diffusers. I have been using a tiny venturi pump from a nano-skimmer (Reef Octopus) and the bubbles are chopped up nicely, I need to pick up a diffuser to see if the bubbles get smaller, but if not, this works for me :)

 

[Reeflogic]

I wanted to give a shout out to @Thales and a sincere public apology. I've already discussed it in private with Rich and just felt it was necessary to say something here, in hopes that he remains active as this discussion continues to grow in popularity. Basically, I felt insulted by an earlier post, but I misread the post and took it personally. I also spent the better half of the evening reading some great articles that Rich was gracious enough to link me.

The following article really opened my eyes, on many levels! Thanks, for this great food for thought!

http://packedhead.net/2011/skeptical-reefkeeping-experts-and-changing-your-mind/

This helped me understand skepticism from a scientific point of view, as opposed to a hobbyist point of view. Maybe others will take the time to read it and will be more open-minded to such skepticism in the future, in the end, it will make us all better reefers! :D

 

[Salty1962]

I wanted to give a shout out to @Thales and a sincere public apology. I've already discussed it in private with Rich and just felt it was necessary to say something here, in hopes that he remains active as this discussion continues to grow in popularity. Basically, I felt insulted by an earlier post, but I misread the post and took it personally. I also spent the better half of the evening reading some great articles that Rich was gracious enough to link me.

The following article really opened my eyes, on many levels! Thanks, for this great food for thought!

http://packedhead.net/2011/skeptical-reefkeeping-experts-and-changing-your-mind/

This helped me understand skepticism from a scientific point of view, as opposed to a hobbyist point of view. Maybe others will take the time to read it and will be more open-minded to such skepticism in the future, in the end, it will make us all better reefers! :D

Good Read!

 

[Reefahholic]

Count me in. I'll do some testing myself. I'm just gonna kick it up a few notches to see how well it really does work. I have a oxygen diffuser and large oxygen tank plus a micro nano bubble generator that I can blow directly into my return pump inlet. Let the games begin boys! :D

I wonder if I can overdose some Acropora's?!?!

 

[Reefahholic]

 

[Reeflogic]

Liquid smoke lol, that's crazy, man!

 

[cb684]

Count me in. I'll do some testing myself. I'm just gonna kick it up a few notches to see how well it really does work. I have a oxygen diffuser and large oxygen tank plus a micro nano bubble generator that I can blow directly into my return pump inlet. Let the games begin boys! :D

I wonder if I can overdose some Acropora's?!?!

Can you share what is the nano bubble generator you have? I spent a few hours yesterday looking for one, and could not find one that I was sure would work. Also, I would be cautious in using pure oxygen, it might be a good idea to use compressed air. IMO it would far easier to overdose oxygen than air...

 

[Reefahholic]

Liquid smoke lol, that's crazy, man!

The smaller the bubbles the more surface area. More surface area will allow export of organic waste/ impurities. They can be floated out of the water column. Or it can provide more contact for transferring oxygen or other gases into the water.

 

[Char lie]

I'll admit I am probably one of the least open-minded when it comes to new techniques in this hobby but I will add my opinion too:

In my sump large amounts of the walls are covered with tube worms (larger soft shell ones, not the annoying white/hard ones) and also a rather large variety of small sponges. The reason I'm mentioning that in this post is due to the fact the sump walls around the skimmer outlet and the drain running into the sump, which spray air when the return pump is turned off/on, are totally bare of these tubeworms and sponges due to them being killed off by the microbubbles. Not sure if anyone has considered the effects this technique has on sponges etc. that are good for biological filtration...

The tubeworms:



There is a few large-microbubbles on some of the tubeworms from when I turned my return pump off and the odd bubble has made it's way across the sump. Note how the ones in contact with the bubbles are closed/irritated.

Sponges:

Multiple types of different colours; pink, white, a few types of yellow sponge (the pink is sponge not coralline)
And now for the area which is affected by microbubbles emerging from the skimmer outlet:

As you can see there is significantly less life around the skimmer outlet (a few small vermatids, a bunch of annoying hard-shelled tubeworms, one or two pineapple sponges and an aiptasia or two) and absolutely nothing directly where the outlet faces (the patterns are sponges on the other side of the glass, for comparison and the yellow sponge underneath would not be affected too much by the rising bubbles.
I'll admit I have only read a bit of the above post but thought I would bring up this point if it hasn't been brought up yet. I personally wouldn't use this method due to the effects it would have on important biological organisms that are irritated by microbubles. This is just my personal view, I'm a fan of the small sponges/tubeworms as theyr'e good for filtration, no need to hate.
:)

 

[Reefahholic]

Can you share what is the nano bubble generator you have? I spent a few hours yesterday looking for one, and could not find one that I was sure would work. Also, I would be cautious in using pure oxygen, it might be a good idea to use compressed air. IMO it would far easier to overdose oxygen than air...

I have the AS-MK III.

E-mail : [email protected]
Tel : 760-484-2723

Honestly...I was just picking about using pure oxygen and blowing it directly into the return inlet. I don't believe it's needed. I think you'll get plenty of oxygenation by using the technique listed in this thread by putting an air stone under the return inlet. Or by making a DIY venturi PVC pipe. This was all done before on Reef Central around 2010, but for different reasons. However, I don't think anybody ever noticed the benefits it had on coral or a reef in general. I also have a oxygen diffuser that's 10 steps above anything you'll see in a LFS or store. I run them on a regulator that has very low flow capabilities, yet handles high pressure. The flow starts at 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4...and up to 4Lpm. They work a lot better in saltwater vs freshwater just like a skimmer does and require very little flow to generate some nice tiny micro bubbles. I'll list the website below if you want to check them out and a you-tube video.

http://www.keepalive.net/oxygen/

 

[cb684]

I wanted to give a shout out to @Thales and a sincere public apology. I've already discussed it in private with Rich and just felt it was necessary to say something here, in hopes that he remains active as this discussion continues to grow in popularity. Basically, I felt insulted by an earlier post, but I misread the post and took it personally. I also spent the better half of the evening reading some great articles that Rich was gracious enough to link me.

The following article really opened my eyes, on many levels! Thanks, for this great food for thought!

http://packedhead.net/2011/skeptical-reefkeeping-experts-and-changing-your-mind/

This helped me understand skepticism from a scientific point of view, as opposed to a hobbyist point of view. Maybe others will take the time to read it and will be more open-minded to such skepticism in the future, in the end, it will make us all better reefers! :D

I liked your reflection and the text you shared. I was going to comment on it here, but thought it was off topic. So I "commented" it elsewhere: When science got it wrong...

 

[cb684]

I have the AS-MK III.

E-mail : [email protected]
Tel : 760-484-2723

Honestly...I was just picking about using pure oxygen and blowing it directly into the return inlet. I don't believe it's needed. I think you'll get plenty of oxygenation by using the technique listed in this thread by putting an air stone under the return inlet. Or by making a DIY venturi PVC pipe. This was all done before on Reef Central around 2010, but for different reasons. However, I don't think anybody ever noticed the benefits it had on coral or a reef in general. I also have a oxygen diffuser that's 10 steps above anything you'll see in a LFS or store. I run them on a regulator that has very low flow capabilities, yet handles high pressure. The flow starts at 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4...and up to 4Lpm. They work a lot better in saltwater vs freshwater just like a skimmer does and require very little flow to generate some nice tiny micro bubbles. I'll list the website below if you want to check them out and a you-tube video.

http://www.keepalive.net/oxygen/

Do you use the KA970 diffuser?

 

[justjes45]

Ok- I "followed" this thread about a week ago when it starts and didn't have a chance to read it until today.
I have only made it to post [HASHTAG]#144[/HASHTAG] but I have decided to try it.
My question is this- ( and maybe it has been answered in the last 6 pages, but my eyes are blurry..)
I have a 30 gal Nuvo tank.
What size pump should I get?
I am off to track down a wooden bubbler and a pump and timer today!

 

[Thales]

I wanted to give a shout out to @Thales and a sincere public apology. I've already discussed it in private with Rich and just felt it was necessary to say something here, in hopes that he remains active as this discussion continues to grow in popularity. Basically, I felt insulted by an earlier post, but I misread the post and took it personally. I also spent the better half of the evening reading some great articles that Rich was gracious enough to link me.

The following article really opened my eyes, on many levels! Thanks, for this great food for thought!

http://packedhead.net/2011/skeptical-reefkeeping-experts-and-changing-your-mind/

This helped me understand skepticism from a scientific point of view, as opposed to a hobbyist point of view. Maybe others will take the time to read it and will be more open-minded to such skepticism in the future, in the end, it will make us all better reefers! :D

Thanks. This made my day, and reminded me why it is worthwhile to stick with conversations and not to lose my cool. Your private message made my day yesterday by the way!

To the guy that said that public aquariums have been using bubbles for years and then raked me over the coals for asking which public aquariums do that, I would still like to know! Thanks in advance.

 

[McMullen]

I've seen several post on O2 and increasing and even super saturating. I'm curious, why would bubbling increase O2? And why would injecting O2 into the water be beneficial?

We know from both human and animal "mammal" models this is detrimental! Even short term increases in human arterial oxygen levels has negative effects.

 

[malira]

What diffuser or airstone are y'all using?

Which are the best?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've seen several post on O2 and increasing and even super saturating. I'm curious, why would bubbling increase O2? And why would injecting O2 into the water be beneficial?

We know from both human and animal "mammal" models this is detrimental! Even short term increases in human arterial oxygen levels has negative effects.

Aeration will increase O2 if the tank water is less than saturated (which it can be, especially at night) and it will decrease O2 if it is more than saturated (which it may be during the day).

That said, aeration schemes can drive in more O2 (and CO2) than normal equilibration with the air would if the air in contact with the water is under pressure. Bubbles under water will be under some pressure, but the tank top is not. So the tank top and the bubbles may be driving the gas exchange in different directions in some circumstances.

I would not try to supersaturate the water, but the ocean on tropical reefs can be supersaturated with O2 during the day.