Multiple Tang Issues

[TL1]

Diagnoses and guidance wanted...

Background:

A few months back I had my first Ich outbreak and lost a few fish. All tangs survived (Hippo, Whitetail Bristletooth, Yellow). I have a 40W UV on the tank FYI.

Hippo is fat and healthy, but has a few white spots on him. Yellow and Bristletooth are eating and swimming well, but appear to have some sort of infection/s, which I had hoped they would drop in due time (they have not). All other fish appear to be healthy.

Everything settled out and I added a Gem Tang, yes probably too soon, but I couldn't resist at <$500.

The gem tang has been in the tank for two weeks. He has not shown interest in food and I have not seen him eating; however, he does not appear to be thinning. He swims very lazily, not on his side or anything, and doesn't come out as often as the other tangs. When feeding it's like he doesn't care... food will go right by his face. I have seen him pick at Nori one single time, and he will occasionally pick at the sand or rocks.

I noticed this morning his eyes appear to be bulging. Upon looking further at the other tangs... the yellow tang has some issues around it's eyes as well.

I have been feeding metroplex/focus off and on for the last week. I feed nori and reef/herbivore frenzy daily with an occasional clam on the half shell. Water parameters are stable and in good ranges with the exception of N and P... both are near zero, I've been feeding heavy trying to get them up.

And yes, I know, I should have QTd everybody... so please refrain from discussing the past, I'm trying to establish a path fwd.

Thank you all in advance!

 

[threebuoys]

Repeat of my post on your other post

To help, we need more info

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Pictures should be taken under white light

 

[TL1]

Repeat of my post on your other post

To help, we need more info

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Pictures should be taken under white light

Working on it now. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Working on it now. Thanks!

Unless my eyes are deceiving me, there still appears to be a presence of ich and secondary bacterial likely from diminished water quality. Are fish breathing rapidly ?
All eyes appear cloudy and with dots indicating parasitical rather than flukes.
How long did you treat last time for ich and what copper test kit were you using ?

 

[TL1]

@vetteguy53081

Gem was from DrReef. He was paced in an acclimation box until lights out the first night. Unable to see fish eat. I assume DrReef was feeding it well(?). The fish was to be quarantined, but after the outbreak and talking to DrReef I decided to go with conditioned only since it would be less stressful.

I have not tried brine shrimp. I will. I have some Masstick as well that was just delivered yesterday. I will try the nori on a rock.

I will lower white intensity as well.

Ammonia = 0.5 ppm

I feel so dumb for assuming ammonia was fine. I haven't checked it in a while. I dosed Microbacter 7 and will continue to do so for a few days.

Nitrate = 0-5 ppm
Phosphate = 0 ppm
Salinity = 35 ppt
pH = min 7.88, avg. 8, max 8.11

Using API for convenience at the moment, but I have Hanah Checkers as well.

 

[TL1]

I did not treat :( ...was hoping they'd power through it. Probably pretty dumb

 

[TL1]

Photos in white light

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081

Gem was from DrReef. He was paced in an acclimation box until lights out the first night. Unable to see fish eat. I assume DrReef was feeding it well(?). The fish was to be quarantined, but after the outbreak and talking to DrReef I decided to go with conditioned only since it would be less stressful.

I have not tried brine shrimp. I will. I have some Masstick as well that was just delivered yesterday. I will try the nori on a rock.

I will lower white intensity as well.

Ammonia = 0.5 ppm

I feel so dumb for not assuming ammonia was fine. I haven't checked it in a while. I dosed Microbacter 7 and will continue to do so for a few days.

Nitrate = 0-5 ppm
Phosphate = 0 ppm
Salinity = 35 ppt
pH = min 7.88, avg. 8, max 8.11

Using API for convenience at the moment, but I have Hanah Checkers as well.

Ammonia a little elevated and API known for false readings and level likely higher than its' showing.

Masstick also good enticer food.

Did you acclimate fish? Ho and for how long ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Photos in white light

Thank you for well taken pics. Yes, I do see some dots on the gem. Had to look at mine to see mine had dots on eyes.
When you treated for ich, should have been a Full 30 days at 80 degrees at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 using a reliable copper test kit (Not API brand either) If it was not thirty days, you may have to repeat.
Also - when treating for ailments, always increase oxygen with use of an airstone.

As a guy with Many tangs, assure good diet:

-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Photos in white light

Just my two cents - based on the apparent age of the tank and the corals, I would say your .5 ppm ammonia reading is a false positive. Try another test brand to confirm?
While there is probably ich simmering in this tank, the general bedraggled appearance and glassy eyes could well be flukes. Prazipro would be a reef safe option.
Jay

 

[TL1]

Ammonia a little elevated and API known for false readings and level likely higher than its' showing.

Masstick also good enticer food.

Did you acclimate fish? Ho and for how long ?

In acclimation box for a few hours before lights out.

 

[TL1]

Thank you for well taken pics. Yes, I do see some dots on the gem. Had to look at mine to see mine had dots on eyes.
When you treated for ich, should have been a Full 30 days at 80 degrees at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 using a reliable copper test kit (Not API brand either) If it was not thirty days, you may have to repeat.
Also - when treating for ailments, always increase oxygen with use of an airstone.

As a guy with Many tangs, assure good diet:

-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Thank you for the insights. I will broaden their diet for sure.

Honestly I know I will never go so far as to quarantine every coral and invert goes in my tank, so I am trying at this point to manage the issues.

 

[TL1]

Just my two cents - based on the apparent age of the tank and the corals, I would say your .5 ppm ammonia reading is a false positive. Try another test brand to confirm?
While there is probably ich simmering in this tank, the general bedraggled appearance and glassy eyes could well be flukes. Prazipro would be a reef safe option.
Jay

Unfortunately I do not have another ammonia handy.

I have Prazipro handy... I've never dose my display though. I dont have any bristle worms or tube worms, so that shouldnt be a problem... Anything else I should watch out for?

 

[Sharkbait19]

I’m detecting a few things from these pictures, particularly HLLE on the yellow tang and gem tang, and most certainly marine velvet on this one:

There’s also what appears to be flukes on your royal gramma and gem tang.
May I ask what quarantine procedure you used, if any? I saw you bought the gem tang recently, which could have brought something (or a few things) into the system. Would you happen to know the treatment methods of your lfs?

I also saw that you mentioned an ich outbreak in which a few tangs survived. Unfortunately, ich usually doesn’t just disappear, but drops off the fish only to come back in greater numbers.

 

[TL1]

I’m detecting a few things from these pictures, particularly HLLE on the yellow tang and gem tang, and most certainly marine velvet on this one:

There’s also what appears to be flukes on your royal gramma and gem tang.
May I ask what quarantine procedure you used, if any? Did you buy anything recently, and if so, would you happen to know the treatment methods of your lfs?

Most recent purchase was the gem tang. Conditioned through DrReef.

Prior from the LFS, back in late January was the bristletooth, a ruby head wrasse and a solorensis wrasse, that batch is what did it.

I know he keeps his tangs in copper.

I did not quarantine. I gambled and lost.

The bristetooth has looked rough for a while, that photo where you mentioned velvet is the first time he's looked that rough. If it were velvet, I'd suspect a lot of fish death in the last week or two, and Ive had no losses since the first Ich outbreak.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Most recent purchase was the gem tang. Conditioned through DrReef.

Prior from the LFS, back in late January was the bristletooth, a ruby head wrasse and a solorensis wrasse, that batch is what did it.

I know he keeps his tangs in copper.

I did not quarantine. I gambled and lost.

I’ve been there too with taking a gamble, and it definitely sucks when it doesn’t work out…
It’s possible your lfs keeps things in strong enough copper to suppress the illness, but not necessarily enough to prevent or kill it. The stress of a new environment can easily activate seemingly “dormant” parasites.

 

[TL1]

I’ve been there too with taking a gamble, and it definitely sucks when it doesn’t work out…
It’s possible your lfs keeps things in strong enough copper to suppress the illness, but not necessarily enough to prevent or kill it. The stress of a new environment can easily activate seemingly “dormant” parasites.

From what I gather from this thread, I will dose the tank with Prazipro, monitor and see if they begin to heal(?).


Overall what are the odds that Prazipro and a solid diet will suffice? If there is HLLE what needs to be done there, if anything?

 

[Sharkbait19]

From what I gather from this thread, I will dose the tank with Prazipro, monitor and see if they begin to heal(?).


Overall what are the odds that Prazipro and a solid diet will suffice? If there is HLLE what needs to be done there, if anything?

PraziPro is specifically for flukes, so that alone will not treat most protozoan illnesses. Copper, formalin, or malachite green are all preferred treatment methods. The best HLLE treatment is really just clean water and removing carbon.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Unfortunately I do not have another ammonia handy.

I have Prazipro handy... I've never dose my display though. I dont have any bristle worms or tube worms, so that shouldnt be a problem... Anything else I should watch out for?

Be sure to provide good aeration, not just circulation, when dosing prazipro. Also, keep your skimmer running, just don't collect anything for the first 36 hours after dosing.

Jay