My Current QT Process

[Big G]

+1 on ^^^ great advice from @HotRocks
You can increase the spectrum a bit by dosing Neoplex + Sulfaplex. Have had very good results treating with this combo when infections like this are in the face/mouth area. Sorry about your losses.

 

[Billldg]

I am sure you tried this already @HotRocks, but figured I would do it and try to save a couple of days going from copper to prazi, I did a 15 gal water change yesterday and plan on doing one today, with a 3rd tomorrow, that will give me roughly a 112 percent water change over 3 days, curious to see what the copper level will be after.

 

[HotRocks]

I am sure you tried this already @HotRocks, but figured I would do it and try to save a couple of days going from copper to prazi, I did a 15 gal water change yesterday and plan on doing one today, with a 3rd tomorrow, that will give me roughly a 112 percent water change over 3 days, curious to see what the copper level will be after.

What was your Cu level when you started the 1st change? What is total tank volume?

 

[Billldg]

What was your Cu level when you started the 1st change? What is total tank volume?

1.85 ppm, 40 gal

 

[HotRocks]

1.85 ppm, 40 gal

You will end up around .47-.50ppm.

You are basically doing a 37.5% reduction of the Cu level each time you do a WC at 15gal.

 

[HotRocks]

You will end up around .47-.50ppm.

You are basically doing a 37.5% reduction of the Cu level each time you do a WC at 15gal.

If you want the copper completely gone. Do a 40g WC. Just siphon off a 5gal bucket. Net fish into bucket. Drain tank, refill (temp and salinity matching). Place fish back into tank and dose prazi.

Oh, and you'll save 5 gallons of water. As well as have a Cu level of 0ppm instead of .5ppm.

 

[Billldg]

If you want the copper completely gone. Do a 40g WC. Just siphon off a 5gal bucket. Net fish into bucket. Drain tank, refill (temp and salinity matching). Place fish back into tank and dose prazi.

Oh, and you'll save 5 gallons of water. As well as have a Cu level of 0ppm instead of .5ppm.

How low does the copper level have to be for it to be safe to dose prazi in it?

 

[HotRocks]

How low does the copper level have to be for it to be safe to dose prazi in it?

If you are using Prazipro, I would get it to Zero. If you are using General Cure, the .50ppm should not present a problem. I use GC in therapeutic copper when necessary without issue.

 

[Billldg]

If you are using Prazipro, I would get it to Zero. If you are using General Cure, the .50ppm should not present a problem. I use GC in therapeutic copper when necessary without issue.

Logistically, GC would be easier on me as I only have 30 gals of saltwater on hand any given time, I can make more easily as I can keep up to 90 gals of water and usually have 60 on hand, but I would have to mix another batch of saltwater and heat it up while the fish are in a bucket, I would have just put them in my 20 that I have set up till then, but my DT fish are in their now after I rebuilt my DT, so that option is not on the table. As long as GC will do the same job as prazi I will probably go that route, may just do another 15 gal water change to bring level down even lower. Really in no rush to get fish out of the QT tank since my DT fish are also out on the DT, it gives me a chance to put all 3 tangs in at one time, plus, after the rebuild the tank is going thru the ugly stage.

As always, thanks for the advice @HotRocks.

 

[Jason Miller]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 1.75ppm. increasing the level .25ppm per day. I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

Great Wright up Thank you.
Question. How many Gal QT tank would you recommend? Also what filtration are you running.?

 

[HotRocks]

Great Wright up Thank you.
Question. How many Gal QT tank would you recommend? Also what filtration are you running.?

What are you trying to QT? How many fish at once and what sizes?

I just use marineland HOB on QTs.

 

[Jason Miller]

What are you trying to QT? How many fish at once and what sizes?

I just use marineland HOB on QTs.

I would only QT ABOUT 4 tangs and butterfly at once.

What filtration would you recommend?

 

[HotRocks]

I would only QT ABOUT 4 tangs and butterfly at once.

What filtration would you recommend?

I wouldn't go any less than a 40b. Depending on the size and type of tangs you may be better off with a 55 so they have additional swimming room.

Just run sponge media in the HOB. To house biofilter. Filtration is not generally necessary in QT. Some types of filter floss etc. Can remove meds.

 

[Jason Miller]

I wouldn't go any less than a 40b. Depending on the size and type of tangs you may be better off with a 55 so they have additional swimming room.

Just run sponge media in the HOB. To house biofilter. Filtration is not generally necessary in QT. Some types of filter floss etc. Can remove meds.

Awesome ,
What is a HOB ? I am terrible with these abbreviations.

 

[HotRocks]

Awesome ,
What is a HOB ? I am terrible with these abbreviations.

Sorry, Hang On Back Filter.
https://www.amazon.com/Marineland-P...573536&sr=8-2&keywords=marineland+penguin+350

 

[Salty Irishman]

I have seen this recently in a few different tangs.

I would recommend Sulfaplex or API triple Sulfa. Any med that contains Sulfathiazole. It seems to work best with infections around or near the mouth. You could also combine it with kanamycin (Kanaplex) and Nirtofurazone (Furan-2). That would give you a nice wide range of coverage.

Would it be safe to treat the tang as mentioned above while there is a lyretail anthias (not doing well from shipping and hasn't eaten in 5 days that I'm aware of) in the same QT? Sure wish there was somewhere local I could get live food to try on the anthias. Found black worms but they're done the second they hit SW.

 

[HotRocks]

Would it be safe to treat the tang as mentioned above while there is a lyretail anthias (not doing well from shipping and hasn't eaten in 5 days that I'm aware of) in the same QT? Sure wish there was somewhere local I could get live food to try on the anthias. Found black worms but they're done the second they hit SW.

Yes that should not create a problem.

 

[Jason Miller]

Sorry, Hang On Back Filter.
https://www.amazon.com/Marineland-P...573536&sr=8-2&keywords=marineland+penguin+350

Thank you @HotRocks , you the man.!

 

[Conor_K]

Ok so my first attempt at a QT and trying this method.
I liked not having to drip acclimate quite a bit.

Currently at 1.0 CP per Hanna.

Two questions:

My two spot goby has made his way to the bare glass bottom (light film of sand on it) while the clown has decided to host the small plastic dish of sand originaly set for the the goby.
Should I do anything about this?

Second, hows this guy look. He is quite a bit more jittery than my other clown, but also quite a bit smaller..



Fingera crossed this all goes well.
Thanks in advance,
C

 

[HotRocks]

Ok so my first attempt at a QT and trying this method.
I liked not having to drip acclimate quite a bit.

Currently at 1.0 CP per Hanna.

Two questions:

My two spot goby has made his way to the bare glass bottom (light film of sand on it) while the clown has decided to host the small plastic dish of sand originaly set for the the goby.
Should I do anything about this?

Second, hows this guy look. He is quite a bit more jittery than my other clown, but also quite a bit smaller..



Fingera crossed this all goes well.
Thanks in advance,
C

I wouldn't mess with them. Let them settle in.

The clown looks like he is doing normal "clown things" to me. I'd let them rest.