My First Week Experience with the Reef Moonshiners Program

[Reefahholic]

For me, I don't trust ICP results enough on trace elements as some are dosed or present in such small quantities that they could be within the error range of the test itself.

I find ICP-MS to be pretty darn accurate. I’ve seen enough of them now to be confident about that. ICP testing has come a long way, but not every company with a ICP machine is trustworthy.

So I'm sure the program works great, but in my opinion it *should* - you're fine tuning dozens of dials.

Exactly. When you keep the Chemistry at a higher level, the results speak for themselves. It’s no surprise.

 

[Reefahholic]

Corals are consuming it more rapidly as they have all the nutrients they need to grow.

Also the biology.

 

[Reefahholic]

As long as it's not painted as some miracle mystery panacea

I don’t think anybody has really painted the method as a miracle panacea. I think people are just happy to see results in their reef tanks.

The bottom line is if you correct your chemistry and bring it to a higher level the corals respond. That’s it.

We elevate elements to create a buffer zone in order to reduce the chances of depletion. This also increases color pop. It’s that simple.

We have the tools that are built around the ICP’s we use and it’s basically A-Z in order just like you receive your results. No jumping around looking for stuff. You plug in the numbers, hit enter, and correct the chemistry with guidance. There’s no guessing about potency, or what a safe daily dose would be, or how many days to run out a correction dose. The is zero math. This is all taken care of for you so that you can focus on growing corals safely.

This was the whole reason why I started Reef Moonshiners. It was the easiest method out there. I’ve ran several different methods, but nothing in 1-3 bottles can keep the entire chemistry at target levels consistently. Elements eventually either came back too low or too high.


For example:

Joe has a beautiful 300/G LPS reef.

Jake has a 150/G 100% Acro dominated reef.

Do Joe and Jake have the same consumption, biomass, bioload, nutrient export methods, coral species, lighting,
etc? Most likely not.

What happens when Joe’s tank is not doing so hot and Vanadium, Selenium, & Cobalt are no longer being consumed normally.? Joe will likely start overdosing these elements. So Joe must now stop these elements, but the problem is that all (or most) of his “other” elements are in the same bottle with them. Now Joe has to stop “everything” to keep from overdosing his reef.

On the flipside Jake’s heavily dominated Acropora system is drinking hard. Jake is having a difficult time keeping the Alkalinity stable. He keeps increasing his dosing pump. Jake sends an ICP-MS and notices that his Nickel, Zinc, and Manganese are completely depleted. He also sees that Iodine is critically low at 12 ug/L. How does Jake increase the ratio’s in his one beautifully colored blue bottle? He can’t unless he supplements “another” product.

 

[Kuhmens]

Moonshiner here aswell, been using the sauce for about a year now. Quick back story, have a 120g mixed reef that I couldn't get a sps coral to grow to save my life. No matter the amount of waterchanges, proper husbandry, light, flow, coral food, snakeoil. Nothing would happen, they'd stay alive long enough to tease me then just die.
Upgraded to a 350g total system. Decided that I'd be using moonshiner from DAY ONE sure I've had hiccups along the way but this program has allowed me to grow a sps dominate tank with the best of them, phenomenal entrusting, beautiful colors, any deaths I've had has been my own doing and explainable. No waterchanges, the method really has helped. Sure we all have our own tweaks to things but if you can fully understand the base guide and not just skim the hand book like it's a picture book. You'll have a successful reef, and I put my money on that.

Goodluck and great writeup!
SHINE ON

 

[AJsReef]

20ppm drop in NO3 inside a week? No WC?

 

[Kuhmens]

I always wish there was an experienced sps keeper that would run two tanks. One with and one without moonshiners to see the difference. It’s just me but I always feel like people who are experienced enough to want to dose all of these elements and stay on top of testing like that already have the ability to run an amazing reef. Maybe it is a game changer like folks say I just wish there was a 2 year long experiment with a control to reference. Keep us updated!

Actually, as stated above. I simply just followed the moonshiners method, nothing more. I actually do less now and let my tank go far more than I ever did my other tank, I let it get out of control sometimes but focus on one thing solely and that's STABILITY and I've seen nothing but success using this method. I've also seen countless mature tanks with years under their belt start shine and see double the element consumption and colors they never seen. I feel that's proof in the pudding alone.

 

[Kuhmens]

20ppm drop in NO3 inside a week? No WC?

I dropped over 100 ppm in a month, no waterchange

 

[d2mini]

I started the shine on my tank just a few months into the build. I started it up with rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater and wanted everything to settle in first and do water changes knowing I'd have some die off and excessive nutrients. And I had an unfortunate experience with some bad calibration fluid causing my salinity probe to read low, resulting in salt levels that were off the chart high for those first 2-3 months, and this was using Red Sea Pro salt which has elevated levels to being with. SPS that were introduced during this time did not do well! I started the shine at about the same time I corrected the salt levels and got parameters down to normal levels. The ones that survived have been recovering and now coloring up. Still waiting on them to actually start growing. But I saved one frag that had STN'd on the back side of all branches. Another one I saved that was STN'ing by cutting it down to the base.

My LPS are all looking good, and I've got great growth on my macros and gorgonians that all came in on the TBS rock. Gorgonians have never actually grown for me before, i was always lucky if they even survived more than several months. Now I'm getting noticeable growth and regeneration on a weekly basis.

Nitrates dropped like a rock during the first few weeks of the shine, basically bottoming out. I'm now dosing that daily.

 

[Pro2704]

I have a 90 gallon mixed reef tank. I'm just starting to expand my coral collection beyond Zoa's and leathers. I'm very interested in moonshiners program. I see on their webpage that they have three different tests available. Which one should I start with? Also, is this program safe to use with anemones in the tank?

 

[maleshka21]

I have a 90 gallon mixed reef tank. I'm just starting to expand my coral collection beyond Zoa's and leathers. I'm very interested in moonshiners program. I see on their webpage that they have three different tests available. Which one should I start with? Also, is this program safe to use with anemones in the tank?

any test is a good to start, yes very safe they will multiply fast so get get ready

 

[R-balljunkie]

@Freddie83, thank you for posting this!

OK, the MM is coming into its own for me! I’ve never seen SPS this brilliantly colored and with this much polyp extension. On top of that the polyp extension on some of the SPSs now shows different pigments of colors, which only came to my attention over the last week. This is going to be my third month on MM, and as I'm sure others have mentioned, three months is right when everything starts to make a change for the positive, if, they adhere to the conditions outlined in the method.

This method suffers from a few issues…

• It's expensive to get going the cost associated between the ongoing tests and the purchase of the elements makes it cost-prohibitive to a widespread audience. [if I’d wanted a cheap hobby, I would not have picked this one]
• Ongoing ICP-OES
• Ongoing ICP-MS (alt test, cost a bit more)
• Large correction dosing (consumed large amounts of the element will need to be repurchased, more $$$)
• Automation – 16 + dosing heads/unit (planned future expense)
• The widespread adoption is also met with almost cult-like damnation, sometimes far beyond skepticism. Healthy skepticism is a good thing, it keeps folks honest and it also helps to avoid pitfalls that would otherwise destroy the hobby. You simply must ask someone who's on the method to show you a picture of their system, then ask a cult-like skepticism who's not on the method or something similar to show you, their proof. We've all seen many keyboard warriors coming out throughout the years, some know what they're talking about but many of them seem to want to do nothing but tell “YOU ARE WRONG” without real tangible proof.

IMHO, the PROs far out way the CONs…

Healthy fast-growing inhabitants, I say inhabitants because I've seen a large boom not just in coral color and growth but also in other animals in my current system (be it, directly or indirectly) from MM. I can only assume that bacteria/organisms also take advantage of this method in some form. Stabilization of water parameters is probably the major contributing factor to this MM, which has aided in achieving the levels I’m currently seeing. I haven't done a water change since I started on MM and my parameters have never been better.

Nutrients (just to name a couple)

• Nitrate: 18.02 mg/l
• Phosphate: 0.03 mg/l

In closing, keep an open mind and don't believe everything you are told from one source, do your homework! Find someone in your area on MM and talk to them, ask if they can show you their system and share the expertise and knowledge that they've gained, some of that might be a few pitfalls they ran into but that's how we learn, and it might help you avoid these issues if you decide to try MM.

I'm not sure how this whole write up was not responded without a single comment. well spoken, well summarized.

 

[14 foot reef]

Ive been reefing for 43 years, my current tank has been set up for 21 years with a complete clean out restart from chlorine bath and all new substrate and Real Life Rock - Carib-sea 5 years ago in February of 2018.
The last 5 years has certainly had more challenges than I've ever had before setting up a system. I follow that all back to not clearing understanding the benefit of real live rock from the ocean.
I tried the Triton Method right from the start, never should have done that, tank was so unstable. I should have waited a year before starting the Triton Method. I was cursed with GHA, Dinos, Cyano, you name it, this tank had it. I got out of the ugly stage by 4 back to back to back to back Flucanozol treatments. Once that was under control, I went to Auto Water Changes 5 % weekly, and added the Apex Neptune with trident and really seen the instability in my system. Test kits can do it, but with a lot of labor. My entire Apex, Trident and all 4 DOS's have all paid for them selves in coral growth and lack of repeated death in SPS. I will say that the reef is actually that, a reef, for the first time in 5 years, my growth and color is doing well, but its slow and steady. I have solidly been on the exact same regiment for 1 year, I moved to Tropic Marin A & K trace dosing along with Tropic Marin Bacto balance dosing one year ago. This has been my best change to date.
After reading this thread, I have decided to move to the MM and see where it takes me. My reef has been exactly the same for one total year. My ICP test is on its way to Germany to ATI for analysis. I've now read the Reef Moonshiners Method guide book twice cover to cover, I pre ordered all the corrective juices recommended for first time users of MM. I know once I get my test back there will be more to purchase.
This is not going to be cheap up front. My system is 850 Gallons. I am NOT going to change one thing on my system in the next year. I will not change lighting schedule. flow schedule, feeding, filtration method, nothing. If the tank takes a negative of positive turn, it will solely be from the Reef Moonshiners method, or from my mistakes as a reefer.
Changing zero other processes should give me a very true result from this Moonshiners method. I'm going all in !!! I believe my reef is in such a stable documented place in its existence, that moving to this method should scientifically show its advantages or disadvantages. I'll keep up with cost and reef tank inhabitants overall health and report on fact not fiction, back to this forum. I have every fail safe in place to avoid any outside negative contributors. (fingers crossed.)
I will do an ICP test every 4 weeks for 6 months, then every other month from that point until end of year one.
So here it goes, stay tuned, we may even end up moving this to its own thread if it becomes a popular test.

 

[t5Nitro]

Anyone experienced with this product line have a go to top 3 or 4 bottles that you would recommend? I've been able to dose red sea colors by hand and visual inspection of coral health rather than sending frequent ICP tests. I thought about trying this for the moonshiners products. Would like 3 to 4 of the main elements people seem to need the most or get the best positive impact from.

My tank tends to like potassium and iodide based on the red sea products.

 

[Coral Euphoria]

For the those who notice a difference, I'm curious to know which salt you are were using?

 

[maleshka21]

For the those who notice a difference, I'm curious to know which salt you are were using?

Started with TM but switched Red Sea blue bucket however no WC over a year, only few 5-10 gallons to clean sump maybe 2-3 times a year.

 

[maleshka21]

Anyone experienced with this product line have a go to top 3 or 4 bottles that you would recommend? I've been able to dose red sea colors by hand and visual inspection of coral health rather than sending frequent ICP tests. I thought about trying this for the moonshiners products. Would like 3 to 4 of the main elements people seem to need the most or get the best positive impact from.

My tank tends to like potassium and iodide based on the red sea products.

This one is tough to answer since all elements based on ICP. Still trying to dial down but few that dose daily iodine, chromium, cobalt, mangan. Barium nickel is another one however these are only 4 days to 5 days dose it really varies.

 

[14 foot reef]

Anyone experienced with this product line have a go to top 3 or 4 bottles that you would recommend? I've been able to dose red sea colors by hand and visual inspection of coral health rather than sending frequent ICP tests. I thought about trying this for the moonshiners products. Would like 3 to 4 of the main elements people seem to need the most or get the best positive impact from.

My tank tends to like potassium and iodide based on the red sea products.

I just started this method this week. So far I have purchased the following, roughly about $650.00 invested so far.
I bought 2 ICP & 1 ICP-MS test up front.
The Salt I have been using for over 20 years in this reef tank is Instant Ocean.

Molybdenum
Nickel
Chromium
Cobalt
Iron
Zinc
Selenium
Liquid Mud
Vitamin CarbX
Brightwell Calcion=P
Brightwell Potassion-P
Flouride
Rubidium
Seachem Iodide
Vanadium

 

[Max93]

I’ve been using RMS now for about 2.5 months. The acros I bought after the first correction are still alive and growing.
Nothing crazy or anything but this is the longest I’ve ever kept acros alive so it’s a win so far.

I dose kalk
Two 400w metal halides and 4 XHO reefbrites on a 6 foot tank.

sometimes my consumption of alk increases rapidly and I have to turn on my doser to help my kalkwaser keep up. Then sometimes it slows down - idk. But my feeding is very inconsistent (some days I feed much heavier than others depending on wha my nitrates are testing at).

I dose NOPOX to keep my nutrients in check along with my skimmer.

I have pics but no good after pics yet so I’ll hold of on showing any pics until I see some good growth. So far just encrusting and minor PE.

 

[Genvid]

Does this method work, with an LPS tank, I dose a DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost, I am very interested in this method, please advise where to start. And whether it will be necessary to continue further dosing two parts.

 

[14 foot reef]

Does this method work, with an LPS tank, I dose a DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost, I am very interested in this method, please advise where to start. And whether it will be necessary to continue further dosing two parts.

All resources, including a 3 hour Reefdudes video with Andre, advise that reading the moonshiners handbook at least 2 times to totally understand the program before you dive in.

I've read it 4 times now and just started the process this week. Here is the link, diving into this without reading this thoroughly I would agree is a huge mistake. Andre also recommends this is not for reef tank owners that aren't already pretty dialed into their reef tanks and understand this hobby very well.

All your questions will be answered here.

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