Need advice with Plumbing

[klvnnunez]

Hi,

I am in the process of replacing the plumbing in my DT. I am wondering if someone here can help me chose the better or right option of the two designs I have. As you can see from the pictures attached, I have design two versions with a manifold for UV and reactors. The difference is that in version two, the return line is in a closed loop whereas in version three, the return line has a manifold in between the return line. I was told by a local refer to go with version two (closed loop) as if I don't, I will lose pressure. On all the videos I've seen on YouTube, I only saw version one (extended manifold).

I wanted to mention that the return pump I have is DC rated well above my tank size. I have about 12x capacity in the pump for the size of my dt. The pressure prom the pump wont be an issue as I can control the ouput with the controller.

I'll kindly take suggestions as I will be doing the plumbing this coming weekend.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Aaron Stone]

Version 1.

And I would put the valve before the tee.

The second version makes the manifold pretty much useless as the water will follow the path of least resistance (pressure) and will simply go to the return and bypass the manifold outlets.

 

[klvnnunez]

Version 1.

And I would put the valve before the tee.

The second version makes the manifold pretty much useless as the water will follow the path of least resistance (pressure) and will simply go to the return and bypass the manifold outlets.

That's what I thought. Reefers in the part of Spain where I live have been steering me in the wrong direction. I have made a few mistakes because of it. I am happy to know version 1 of my design is the way to go.

On putting the ball valve before the T. If I do that, I wont be able to adjust the back pressure to send more water through the manifold. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[klvnnunez]

Here's an updated version of the design and what I think is best. Any thoughts?

 

[Aaron Stone]

Here's an updated version of the design and what I think is best. Any thoughts?

Go back to your original version 1. This one is going to have a similar problem. You can use the valve to put back pressure through the first return line, but you have no way to increase back pressure in second return/manifold.

 

[klvnnunez]

Go back to your original version 1. This one is going to have a similar problem. You can use the valve to put back pressure through the first return line, but you have no way to increase back pressure in second return/manifold.

Are you referring to this one? All of the design I've seen online are the same as version 3 (post #4). I need to be able to choke the return line on the right and have more water go up through the left return. Also having an extra outlet for the manifold seems overkill in my opinion. Would you be able to download the image and scribble on top of this what you are referring to so I can visualize it?

Thanks in advance

 

[Aaron Stone]

Are you referring to this one? All of the design I've seen online are the same as version 3 (post #4). I need to be able to choke the return line on the right and have more water go up through the left return. Also having an extra outlet for the manifold seems overkill in my opinion. Would you be able to download the image and scribble on top of this what you are referring to so I can visualize it?

Thanks in advance

The problem with three is that you have free flow through the return on the left. If you have something coming off the manifold it will have to have a lower pressure drop than the return nozzle to see flow. You could add another valve on the left return line to increase the back pressure on the manifold section, but this will do the same thing as the single valve on version 1 placed before the return tee and after the manifold tee. This will be easier to balance with a single valve as opposed to two.

 

[klvnnunez]

The problem with three is that you have free flow through the return on the left. If you have something coming off the manifold it will have to have a lower pressure drop than the return nozzle to see flow. You could add another valve on the left return line to increase the back pressure on the manifold section, but this will do the same thing as the single valve on version 1 placed before the return tee and after the manifold tee. This will be easier to balance with a single valve as opposed to two.

I have re-designed it, how about now?

If you could scribble on the image to show me what you mean will help me tremendously as I'm having difficulties understanding what you mean with one gate valve before the manifold T. My apologies if I'm being ignorant.

 

[Aaron Stone]

Sure... You could put a gate Valve here...

Would make balancing a little easier.

 

[DCR]

You may want to consider separate pumps for the UV and Reactor which are low flow and relatively high head, while the closed loop is high flow and low head. You will be wasting energy by throttling back the closed loop to maintain enough pressure for the UV and Reactor.

 

[Aaron Stone]

You may want to consider separate pumps for the UV and Reactor which are low flow and relatively high head, while the closed loop is high flow and low head. You will be wasting energy by throttling back the closed loop to maintain enough pressure for the UV and Reactor.

This would be ideal if you have the space.

 

[klvnnunez]

Isn't the whole point of having a manifold with valves on the outlets, is to be able to adjust the flow independent of the flow going up through the return line?

I should be able to run reactors, uv and chiller without issues, no?

My whole idea is to be able to adjust the flow and have equal pressure going through both return lines while also having enough pressure through the manifold. I would like to accomplish this with minimal plumbing as my tank is 30 gallons and don't have a lot of space under the cabinet.

 

[DCR]

If your tank is only 30 gallons, then I would not add a second pump. When you are looking at large tanks with large closed loop systems, the energy savings can be substantial for not running your closed loop pump at high speed and throttling the discharge to meet the head requirements of the UV.

 

[MnFish1]

Are you referring to this one? All of the design I've seen online are the same as version 3 (post #4). I need to be able to choke the return line on the right and have more water go up through the left return. Also having an extra outlet for the manifold seems overkill in my opinion. Would you be able to download the image and scribble on top of this what you are referring to so I can visualize it?

Thanks in advance

Why are you not putting a valve on the left return? Seems like that would help the issues with most of the designs. Manifold setups seem like a good idea - but - for example as your 'reactor' or whatever you have plugged into lets say the third valve plugs up - flow is then going to increase either to the other valved equipment or the outflow - and it will be somewhat difficult sometimes to tell that this is happening.

 

[klvnnunez]

Why are you not putting a valve on the left return? Seems like that would help the issues with most of the designs. Manifold setups seem like a good idea - but - for example as your 'reactor' or whatever you have plugged into lets say the third valve plugs up - flow is then going to increase either to the other valved equipment or the outflow - and it will be somewhat difficult sometimes to tell that this is happening.

Here's the new design with a valve on the left most return line. Let me know if this works.

 

[MnFish1]

Here's the new design with a valve on the left most return line. Let me know if this works.

I don't understand why you have the 4th valve after the left return. The one thing I just thought of (and maybe a reason not to have the valve on the left) - is you don't want to be in a position where (without you knowing) your pump is pumping against too high of a pressure. So - I think adding the valve on the left is ok - but I'm not sure I would use it most of the time.

I know there are flow sensors available - and it might make sense if you had those on the output of your reactors/etc - just to make sure the flow through them stays equal over time.

 

[klvnnunez]

I don't understand why you have the 4th valve after the left return. The one thing I just thought of (and maybe a reason not to have the valve on the left) - is you don't want to be in a position where (without you knowing) your pump is pumping against too high of a pressure. So - I think adding the valve on the left is ok - but I'm not sure I would use it most of the time.

I know there are flow sensors available - and it might make sense if you had those on the output of your reactors/etc - just to make sure the flow through them stays equal over time.

The reason I put that there was to send water to the skimmer section to lift the detritus in the hopes of the skimmer picking it up, but that valve doesnt have to be there if it messes with the overall design. I need the design to be optimal which is more importnat to me, as long as I can send water pressure somewhat equally to both return lines.

 

[Aaron Stone]

Here's the new design with a valve on the left most return line. Let me know if this works.

That should work.

 

[RichH]

Hi @klvnnunez
I'm just in the process of trying to work out my manifold - can you advise what program you used to do your layouts please?

Cheers,

Rich.

 

[klvnnunez]

Hi @klvnnunez
I'm just in the process of trying to work out my manifold - can you advise what program you used to do your layouts please?

Cheers,

Rich.

I used photoshop. Looked up plumbing parts online as png and puzzled it all together