Need Help Feeding Mandarin!

[ariellemermaid]

I ordered some fish about 2 weeks ago and the site I ordered from had a great deal on mandarins (we’ve wanted one for a long time now). I’m assuming it’s wild caught (yes, first mistake we know).

We ordered some copepods at the same time to beef up the tank’s supply. We knew we’d have to train it to eat normal foods and after going through a lot of threads and YouTube videos, nothing is working!

The Setup:
He went into a 40g, old display tank with all original live rock (tank is now our “observation tank”). Hard to say if the tank still had a decent supply of copepods but either way we added some jars from AlgaeBarn.

For the first two weeks we just let him roam free but he didn’t seem interested in any foods we offered. So on YouTube advice we moved him to a large mesh isolation box in order to target feed and observe better last weekend.

Foods Tried (with and without garlic):
Frozen mysis
Bloodworms
Arctipods
Can O’ Cyclops
Live hatched baby brines
Pellets
Flakes

He couldn’t care less about any of these foods. He doesn’t mind the target feeder, but I can put these foods right in front of his face and he’ll just stare at them and eventually swim away. He’s been losing weight over the past 2.5 weeks and today his belly is so sunken! It’s too late this week to order more live copepods and I thought the smaller basket plus bloodworms might hopefully work (the latest recommended food). No luck.

If he survives to next week I can get more copepods and move him back to the rock. But, it doesn’t solve the problem of getting him onto regular foods short or long term even assuming I can keep him alive with copepod orders alone.

Any tips and tricks I’m missing?! I'm worried he's going to starve to death at this point.

He's very cute:

 

[Tonycass12]

Try Live brine shrimp. You can buy the eggs at most fish stores. Raise them in a small glass and you can suck them up with a pipette and target feed them.

 

[Tamberav]

Live white worms, Live black worms

Ova, specifically this brand for mandarins (you can find it on amazon as well):

Coral Feast Ova

New coral reef food blend. Highly nutritional blend of whole organism zooplankton eggs (ova) of various species. Hatching coral food.

www.aquaculturenurseryfarms.com

It is super fresh so you will need to freeze portions as no way it will last in the fridge.

Also try to make a mesh feeder like @Paul B uses for the fresh baby brine

A sale on a mandarin does not save money if you have to buy pods

 

[Crustaceon]

PM me on this.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Try Live brine shrimp. You can buy the eggs at most fish stores. Raise them in a small glass and you can suck them up with a pipette and target feed them.

I already had eggs and a hatchery so I tried this first. He just ignores them. When I put some inside his new mesh house they’ll sometimes collect along the edge of the mesh but again he doesn’t nip at them or care they’re there.

Live white worms, Live black worms

Ova, specifically this brand for mandarins (you can find it on amazon as well):

Coral Feast Ova

New coral reef food blend. Highly nutritional blend of whole organism zooplankton eggs (ova) of various species. Hatching coral food.

www.aquaculturenurseryfarms.com

It is super fresh so you will need to freeze portions as no way it will last in the fridge.

Also try to make a mesh feeder like @Paul B uses for the fresh baby brine

A sale on a mandarin does not save money if you have to buy pods

Where can I find the worms you’re talking about? I assume they’re pretty small? I think I’ll try that first as all of my packaged foods (even those recommended by algaebarn have failed).

He really doesn’t seem to care when I add baby brines; my other fish however start darting about and nipping like crazy (different tank). But I’m curious about this feeding mechanism.

 

[Tamberav]

Live black worms are sold at LFS, even freshwater LFS may have them as they are used there too. They die quickly in saltwater but fish may go for them. You keep them in the fidge in just enough water to cover them and change the water daily, I use tap.

White worms are awesome but unfortunately you need to culture them which takes time. You can buy them on ebay for like 12 dollars, it is a small sample in dirt and you grow them in potting soil in a container with a little spray of moisture and you can give them bread, cat food, whatever. Eventually you can grow them in large numbers and they are extremely beneficial to your fish and they stay alive in saltwater for a long while wiggling, so very enticing.

I know the Ova is expensive but it really is magical. I have had so many mandarins go for it...no promises tho!

 

[Scorpius]

Oddly enough my Mandarin eats LRS Reef Frenzy.

 

[ggNoRe]

I was able to get mine to eat prepared frozen simply by shutting off all flow before hand and make sure feed other fish just right before so they are not competing with your mandarin. They are very slow in comparison to other fish in catching the food.

Trained Mandarin Dragonet

My greatest reefing achievement!

youtube.com

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Two weeks is likely not enough time. While many wild caught mandarins eventually can be trained to eat other foods, many will never eat anything but live pods/brine/etc.
Can you reach out to your local reefing community to find some pods? The best way to train, IMO, is to target feed some pods along with another food (including brine shrimp) and hopefully the fish will accidentally eat the other food and eventually decide he likes it.

 

[DHill6]

Oddly enough my Mandarin eats LRS Reef Frenzy.

Mine also eats LRS Reef Frenzy and TDO small pellets but he’s a Biota.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Mine also eats LRS Reef Frenzy and TDO small pellets but he’s a Biota.

Captive bred is definitely the way to go. Even if they are twice the price, the cost of pods is easily more.

 

[Mike1970]

Do you have a refugium? This would save you even a hang on back one

 

[ariellemermaid]

Oddly enough my Mandarin eats LRS Reef Frenzy.

I used to have one local reef store and Reef Frenzy was the first food I ever bought. Unfortunately all I’m left with now is Petco and while I’m happy they do carry some frozen saltwater foods, no Reef Frenzy.

I was able to get mine to eat prepared frozen simply by shutting off all flow before hand and make sure feed other fish just right before so they are not competing with your mandarin. They are very slow in comparison to other fish in catching the food.

Trained Mandarin Dragonet

My greatest reefing achievement!

youtube.com

He’s in a tank all by himself, and I moved him to a smaller mesh box so I could experiment a bit more and keep him close to the food options. I’ve tried flow on, flow off, target feeding right in front of his face, frozen foods, live foods (brine shrimp).

Two weeks is likely not enough time. While many wild caught mandarins eventually can be trained to eat other foods, many will never eat anything but live pods/brine/etc.
Can you reach out to your local reefing community to find some pods? The best way to train, IMO, is to target feed some pods along with another food (including brine shrimp) and hopefully the fish will accidentally eat the other food and eventually decide he likes it.

No community and my one SW LFS shut down. I’m about to make a run to Petco though and see what options they have. Hoping I can find some worms or maybe adult brines to try.

Do you have a refugium? This would save you even a hang on back one

Kind of. My new display tank is only 6 months old. I initially added chaeto and pods to the refugium section (also has a marine pure block) but there weren’t enough nutrients for the chaeto and it died. So 3 weeks ago I did add some large chunks of dry rock and a new round of pods. I don’t know if a population has taken hold or not but I’ve been feeding phyto.

However the mandarin is in an obs tank right now. We have a strict QT process for all fish, corals, and inverts. I’ve read mandarin’s don’t do well with copper so my plan was to carefully observe for several weeks. Moving him to the DT is an option I’ve considered. But, that would be giving up on training on other foods and I don’t know if I can sustain him on copepods in that tank yet. Also taking a risk skipping a longer observation period, and he’ll have more competition generally in the DT.

 

[Mike1970]

I used to have one local reef store and Reef Frenzy was the first food I ever bought. Unfortunately all I’m left with now is Petco and while I’m happy they do carry some frozen saltwater foods, no Reef Frenzy.

He’s in a tank all by himself, and I moved him to a smaller mesh box so I could experiment a bit more and keep him close to the food options. I’ve tried flow on, flow off, target feeding right in front of his face, frozen foods, live foods (brine shrimp).

No community and my one SW LFS shut down. I’m about to make a run to Petco though and see what options they have. Hoping I can find some worms or maybe adult brines to try.

Kind of. My new display tank is only 6 months old. I initially added chaeto and pods to the refugium section (also has a marine pure block) but there weren’t enough nutrients for the chaeto and it died. So 3 weeks ago I did add some large chunks of dry rock and a new round of pods. I don’t know if a population has taken hold or not but I’ve been feeding phyto.

However the mandarin is in an obs tank right now. We have a strict QT process for all fish, corals, and inverts. I’ve read mandarin’s don’t do well with copper so my plan was to carefully observe for several weeks. Moving him to the DT is an option I’ve considered. But, that would be giving up on training on other foods and I don’t know if I can sustain him on copepods in that tank yet. Also taking a risk skipping a longer observation period, and he’ll have more competition generally in the DT.

go to your refugium when the lights are out and look if you see a bunch of pods then you are good to go. if not you are going to have to add more pods

 

[Tamberav]

You can add pods over and over but the population will always stabilize to available food. If the tank is too clean (cheato dying?) then that is probably why. The pods will cannibalize each other and so on.

I don't think petco keeps such stuff.

The mandy not eating live baby brine is concerning. Is it at least doing hunting behavior? exploring slowly? pecking? (pecking does not mean eating, they will peck at a speck of debris and spit it out through the gills).

Mostly wondering if the fish is showing any normal behavior. Also the breeder box stresses some fish out. It doesn't always work for every fish.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I used to have one local reef store and Reef Frenzy was the first food I ever bought. Unfortunately all I’m left with now is Petco and while I’m happy they do carry some frozen saltwater foods, no Reef Frenzy.

He’s in a tank all by himself, and I moved him to a smaller mesh box so I could experiment a bit more and keep him close to the food options. I’ve tried flow on, flow off, target feeding right in front of his face, frozen foods, live foods (brine shrimp).

No community and my one SW LFS shut down. I’m about to make a run to Petco though and see what options they have. Hoping I can find some worms or maybe adult brines to try.

Kind of. My new display tank is only 6 months old. I initially added chaeto and pods to the refugium section (also has a marine pure block) but there weren’t enough nutrients for the chaeto and it died. So 3 weeks ago I did add some large chunks of dry rock and a new round of pods. I don’t know if a population has taken hold or not but I’ve been feeding phyto.

However the mandarin is in an obs tank right now. We have a strict QT process for all fish, corals, and inverts. I’ve read mandarin’s don’t do well with copper so my plan was to carefully observe for several weeks. Moving him to the DT is an option I’ve considered. But, that would be giving up on training on other foods and I don’t know if I can sustain him on copepods in that tank yet. Also taking a risk skipping a longer observation period, and he’ll have more competition generally in the DT.

Adult brine is practically devoid of nutritional value unless gut loaded. If you know you have pods in your display and you think the mandarin is starving in its tank, pull a rock from the display and add it to the other tank so it has some food.
I understand the desire to train it to eat other things, but starving it in the meantime is cruel. And wild caught mandarins may never eat anything other than pods...

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Honestly, try to give him away if you can, soon as possible.

You made a good effort to try to train it, but I've been in your shoes, if it wont go for anything by now, then it will die.

Buying copepods will break your bank account, and just prolong its slow death.

Like Tamberav mentioned above, once it just sits there and stops hunting, then it has given up.

 

[ariellemermaid]

go to your refugium when the lights are out and look if you see a bunch of pods then you are good to go. if not you are going to have to add more pods

I couldn’t even see the copepods in the jars lol. The only tank I’ve been able to consistently see copepods really well in is my coral/invert QT that has zero fish. I guess I haven’t looked hard for copepods after lights out though.

You can add pods over and over but the population will always stabilize to available food. If the tank is too clean (cheato dying?) then that is probably why. The pods will cannibalize each other and so on.

I don't think petco keeps such stuff.

The mandy not eating live baby brine is concerning. Is it at least doing hunting behavior? exploring slowly? pecking? (pecking does not mean eating, they will peck at a speck of debris and spit it out through the gills).

Mostly wondering if the fish is showing any normal behavior. Also the breeder box stresses some fish out. It doesn't always work for every fish.

When he was in the main tank he would get around the rocks quite a bit and peck. In the isolation box he’s still getting around and pecking at times, however, never in response to anything I’m feeding him including the baby brines. I should clarify I tried feeding baby brines day 2, and he never showed any sign of reacting to their presence. So it’s not a change in behavior per se, he just always ignores my foods.

Honestly, try to give him away if you can, soon as possible.

You made a good effort to try to train it, but I've been in your shoes, if it wont go for anything by now, then it will die.

Buying copepods will break your bank account, and just prolong its slow death.

Like Tamberav mentioned above, once it just sits there and stops hunting, then it has given up.

I’m not sure we’re there yet in terms of him giving up. As above, he does get around even in the isolation box with occasional pecking. However, everyone I know in the hobby is no longer in the hobby and the only SW store closed down. So prepared or copepods, he’s either going to make it or not by what I can feed him.

Petsmart had some mealworms but I think they’re too big. Anyway, grasping at straws I bought some. No interest at all, although to be fair, my DT fish ignored the worm too aside from one fish taking one test nip.

Petco does carry copepods now! Instead of just adding them to the tank I target fed some directly in front of his face. He couldn’t have cared less and swam away after a bit. Tomorrow I’ll try bloodworms in a copepod slushy.

I was going to try this copepod/amphipod pack this week but the seller didn’t get back to me on whether they use ocean water/fish free systems or not (again, VERY strict QT in this house). We ordered some back when they sold fish, and some of the critters were quite large, so it could provide some size variety for him. Anyway, I guess I’ll risk it next week and put him back with the rock if he makes it through the weekend.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I couldn’t even see the copepods in the jars lol. The only tank I’ve been able to consistently see copepods really well in is my coral/invert QT that has zero fish. I guess I haven’t looked hard for copepods after lights out though.

When he was in the main tank he would get around the rocks quite a bit and peck. In the isolation box he’s still getting around and pecking at times, however, never in response to anything I’m feeding him including the baby brines. I should clarify I tried feeding baby brines day 2, and he never showed any sign of reacting to their presence. So it’s not a change in behavior per se, he just always ignores my foods.

I’m not sure we’re there yet in terms of him giving up. As above, he does get around even in the isolation box with occasional pecking. However, everyone I know in the hobby is no longer in the hobby and the only SW store closed down. So prepared or copepods, he’s either going to make it or not by what I can feed him.

Petsmart had some mealworms but I think they’re too big. Anyway, grasping at straws I bought some. No interest at all, although to be fair, my DT fish ignored the worm too aside from one fish taking one test nip.

Petco does carry copepods now! Instead of just adding them to the tank I target fed some directly in front of his face. He couldn’t have cared less and swam away after a bit. Tomorrow I’ll try bloodworms in a copepod slushy.

I was going to try this copepod/amphipod pack this week but the seller didn’t get back to me on whether they use ocean water/fish free systems or not (again, VERY strict QT in this house). We ordered some back when they sold fish, and some of the critters were quite large, so it could provide some size variety for him. Anyway, I guess I’ll risk it next week and put him back with the rock if he makes it through the weekend.

Please take him out of the isolation box before seeing "if he makes it through the weekend.".
This entire thread makes me very sad. We can't indiscriminately impose our will onto the animals we care for.

Let the poor guy have the best chance of surviving. You already said he's getting thin... once fish get to a certain point of starvation, their organs start to shut down and no amount of food will save them.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I couldn’t even see the copepods in the jars lol

Use a flashlight and a magnifying glass...