John Hughes
Active Member
Think I heard it requires a newer controller... $$$
Neptune trident
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The one thing I will not fault them on is the cost of the reagents. The cost per test works out to something like 5 cents for alk and 11 cents each for Ca and Mg. Compare that to Salifert, which would be 14 cents per test for alk and around 34 cents per test for Ca and Mg.
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That is good
Not sure on the math, but assuming your calculations are correct I think it's fair to point out Neptune's plan is for you to spend the 40$ every two months generating another $240 in sales over the course of year. I know you can edit the frequency of dosing, but making the 4x/2x/2x daily will probably be the standard for most people.
Salifert might be a little more expensive per test in this scenario, but most people aren't locked into buying new test kits every 2 months.
daelie
Active Member
Mg and Ca are gimmicks. No one tests them at all at that frequency, and most dosing systems really tell you to test alk and adjust all dosing accordingly. So how does that make anyone else redundant? Especially since this is 1300 dollars+ to test (you can't disregard the price of a new apex when it's actually a requirement for the test) while the others are sub 1000?
SlvrZ
Active Member
Only gonna cost me 640 and I'll stretch it to 5 months easily lol
That's worth it to me, my new job is going to require a lot of time and energy and when I do get home, I just want to enjoy my reef. I don't want to be testing with tired eyes then adjusting with a tired mind, I just want to enjoy my tank, let it be in an "autopilot" mode.
600 up front then 80 every year for hands free operation? Yeah sign me up.
That's worth it to me, my new job is going to require a lot of time and energy and when I do get home, I just want to enjoy my reef. I don't want to be testing with tired eyes then adjusting with a tired mind, I just want to enjoy my tank, let it be in an "autopilot" mode.
600 up front then 80 every year for hands free operation? Yeah sign me up.
Yea, I would love to have this capability for my tank but to be honest I doubt I will. A new Apex will be $800-$1000, this unit will cost $500-$600 plus it might require you to use their dosing system which is $450, so in total to use their testing system it will be ~$2400-$2600 plus year reagent cost. I just can't justify spending that much.
drsalomon
Community Member
few questions:
so since the trident uses titration instead of a ph probe, how is any of the technology that Jim sold to Neptune used in this system?
what is the shelf life of each of the three reagents?
will we be able to purchase alk reagent seperately from mg and ca reagent?
a reasonable testing schedule would be ca and mag twice a week and alk 8 times a day to catch and smooth out the diurnal alk swing.
what technology specifically is missing from classic controller that is present in 2016 controller?
could someone still at macna check at macna booth the answers to these questions?
all we really need is alk testing at the lowest possible price. it could be multiple years until trident is sold. surely there is more technology in this device than the cor return pump. alk monitors would liberate me to enjoy multiweek vacations when co2 in the house drops to 400 and ph rises in my tank, leading to higher coral consumption of alk. i already feed my skimmer intake from outside through co2 absorbing filter and i definitely notice ph elevation after a week of house being devoid of co2 emitting entities.
so since the trident uses titration instead of a ph probe, how is any of the technology that Jim sold to Neptune used in this system?
what is the shelf life of each of the three reagents?
will we be able to purchase alk reagent seperately from mg and ca reagent?
a reasonable testing schedule would be ca and mag twice a week and alk 8 times a day to catch and smooth out the diurnal alk swing.
what technology specifically is missing from classic controller that is present in 2016 controller?
could someone still at macna check at macna booth the answers to these questions?
all we really need is alk testing at the lowest possible price. it could be multiple years until trident is sold. surely there is more technology in this device than the cor return pump. alk monitors would liberate me to enjoy multiweek vacations when co2 in the house drops to 400 and ph rises in my tank, leading to higher coral consumption of alk. i already feed my skimmer intake from outside through co2 absorbing filter and i definitely notice ph elevation after a week of house being devoid of co2 emitting entities.
Reefcowboy
Well-Known Member
Ca and Mg are FAR from gimmicks. A loaded sps tank with clams fluctuates calcium often and if you do ever test for something(even if you say once a month), it is already great to be able to monitor it. Over and over we read people dumping Ca and Alk while still not getting proper dkh. Most times people dont pay attention to Mg and fail because they only focus on alk and Ca.
Getting away with your math, you say spending an extra $300 and getting a controller, lab probes, 8 controlled outlets and most and foremost Fusion(by far the best out there) as interface is less attractive than a sole $1,000 Kh monitor(clearly overpriced)?
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
In all my years of this hobby, I've never seen a reef hobby centered company devalue its own product as fast as this. The shear up front cost placed on the you, the consumer/end user, is enormous if you don't have the current model.
If you own a "classic" and want this testing system, the cost expected for you to go through is sickening. On top of that this is where the "devaluation" happens, you'll be practically giving your older system away because they will be flooding the market. Supply and demand will dictate what you'll get for the old unit.
They know what they are doing and have had this strategy planed long before announcing release of this unit. This "devaluation" was planned as a way to sell you a entire new system to run this add on testing system. Back door marketing.
This kind of marketing has be happening for decades when a company corners the market and has no real competition. It's competition is its self. The new Apex is competing with the old Apex, not a different company's controller.
They can force you to do what they want, in this case, buy a entirely new system + the add on + calibration fluid + reagents x months on top of months and months of having to buy reagents to infinity.
Like cattle to slaughter. Shooting fish in a bowl.
If you own a "classic" and want this testing system, the cost expected for you to go through is sickening. On top of that this is where the "devaluation" happens, you'll be practically giving your older system away because they will be flooding the market. Supply and demand will dictate what you'll get for the old unit.
They know what they are doing and have had this strategy planed long before announcing release of this unit. This "devaluation" was planned as a way to sell you a entire new system to run this add on testing system. Back door marketing.
This kind of marketing has be happening for decades when a company corners the market and has no real competition. It's competition is its self. The new Apex is competing with the old Apex, not a different company's controller.
They can force you to do what they want, in this case, buy a entirely new system + the add on + calibration fluid + reagents x months on top of months and months of having to buy reagents to infinity.
Like cattle to slaughter. Shooting fish in a bowl.
drsalomon
Community Member
This would be a great time for a new competitor to emerge to provide choice to consumers. Other companies have tried but so far nothing in my view matches the feature set and price/reliability ratio of neptune. By this monopoly marketing, customers are ready to jump ship if just a viable competitor would emerge.
Not that I am bashing Apex on it's reagent cost but all this new technology and automation is really making it scary to price out what the maintenance/running cost of an aquarium is becoming. I remember when the community was switching from MH/T5 to LED and justifying the initial upfront cost by saying "No more bulb fee!" but here we are again hooked on a new piece of equipment which uses a reagent that annual cost what a year of T5 bulbs use to run me. 
Going to need to start a "livestock and upgrades" fund that is separate than "monthly upkeep/maintenance" at this point. ;Greedy
I know these upgrades are optional/not necessary. Just pointing out how quickly hidden costs are forgotten when focusing on the upfront fee.
Going to need to start a "livestock and upgrades" fund that is separate than "monthly upkeep/maintenance" at this point. ;Greedy
I know these upgrades are optional/not necessary. Just pointing out how quickly hidden costs are forgotten when focusing on the upfront fee.
daelie
Active Member
Who says it's 300 dollars lol, you're taking a company at face value which is hilarious tbh. A company that says you can test for 5-600 while cleverly leaving out that 800 dollar computer to run it.
For people with classic apex why get this over something else, the controllability you'll still have while saving yourself 300-600 bucks.
Easier decision is to go elsewhere and buy it. And probably get a better controller at that.
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Yes since I have fusion(so what I can't update from my phone) and only care enough about alk as I'm doing the triton method and with my triton test I get magnesium and calcium yes a 1000 dollar alk monitor sounds better to me. And alktronics alk monitor is priced for under 800 dollars so that's now 600 dollars cheaper.
I love my apex but this is wrong the way the went about it is wrong forcing us to sell our old is wrong not rewarding ur loyal customers who have already dropped thousand of dollars into ur pocket is wrong esp when jims proto type worked on a classic apex. The new cor and atk can work without an apex. The atk is the smartest auto top off on the market it runs algorithms knows how much water the tank uses has multiple fail safes controls two optical sensors and a pump and doesn't need an apex to work but the can't make the trident work because or random access memory? same thing with the cor suposidly. But now all the sudden jims alk monitor that worked thru the ph port of the apex before Neptune started working with him can no longer be used with a classic apex that has the same ph port. Come on. It can and has worked it's a lie a blatant lie. For Neptune to push a product down ur throat that is ugly and quite frankly unneeded is silly.
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
I'm looking at health of the hobby I love. Competition is healthy and drives the hobby to where it is today. Competition keeps costs down and makes the hobby accessible to everyone. Thus sustains the hobby.
Jason mack
Monti madness
Why not I did !
daelie
Active Member
Lol GHL is a far more reliable controller. And they're not in the business of screwing over their clients.
Very true! Information is always important for our hobby! I hate how someone with a new tank is more likely to be out of the hobby in 12 months rather than in it.
LobsterOfJustice
Valuable Member
Lol what? You know what's a gimmick? Sending your water to Triton for them to tell you your cobalt and molybdenum are low and you need to buy their additive and supplement. Seneye monitoring ammonia. Those are gimmicks. In what world is automated Ca and Mg monitoring a gimmick?
Will I run those test 2x/day? No way. But Neptune is giving you the option to customize it. These are critical reef parameters, not gimmicks, that you can automate testing on whatever schedule you want and then automate your system to notify you or perform actions based on the result. How is that anything other than a GAME CHANGER? I agree this is first and foremost crucial for alkalinity - but adding in the other two and making the unit the same price as other Alk controllers on the market (where are you seeing other Alk controllers for < $1k?) is not a gimmick.
Reefcowboy
Well-Known Member
Lol. Was taking long to learn where all the rage was coming from
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