Nitrate zeroed out without algae issue?

[PointerReefs]

Hello again R2R!

Tonight I tested my tank and found my nitrates had gone down from 6ppm to 0.8 somehow. First test for nitrate with Hanna checker actually read out 0.0 second was 0.8. Only algae in my tank really is on my power head. Rocks are pretty clean so is sand bed.. so I don’t think it’s that. Phosphates went down from 1.0 to 0.5 also. But I have been feeding well. Recently switched from reef roids to benereef twice a week mixed with Live Phyto and frozen mysis. And Tdo pellets for the clowns.. is there some reason other than an algae infestation or I suppose bad reagents that could cause this drop? Reagents are not expired and have seemed to test properly previously.

 

[CHSUB]

Reef tank ideally run with very low no3. That is the way biology works…

 

[PointerReefs]

Reef tank ideally run with very low no3. That is the way biology works…

I mean I’ve read in the ocean they run in very low nutrient environments and feed in bursts of nutrients when schools of fish come through but I don’t think I’ve seen anywhere that it’s really good for your corals to have no nitrates present. I’ve heard of low nutrient systems but not no nutrient lol. Just my speculation though.

 

[CHSUB]

I mean I’ve read in the ocean they run in very low nutrient environments and feed in bursts of nutrients when schools of fish come through but I don’t think I’ve seen anywhere that it’s really good for your corals to have no nitrates present. I’ve heard of low nutrient systems but not no nutrient lol. Just my speculation though.

Lot of dudes will chime in …haha! Nitrogen is needed not necessarily no3, however a readable number is good. Mine is .1 no3 which is fine and yours is fine too. High is ok but not desirable. Hanna HR, which is most likely what you’re using, is not great; but as long as you get some reading you are fine.

 

[PointerReefs]

I mean I’ve read in the ocean they run in very low nutrient environments and feed in bursts of nutrients when schools of fish come through but I don’t think I’ve seen anywhere that it’s really good for your corals to have no nitrates present. I’ve heard of low nutrient systems but not no nutrient lol. Just my speculation though.

Lot of dudes will chime in …haha! Nitrogen is needed not necessarily no3, however a readable number is good. Mine is .1 no3 which is fine and yours is fine too. High is ok but not desirable. Hanna HR, which is most likely what you’re using, is not great; but as long as you get some reading you are fine.

Alright. Just a bit alarming as I’ve been trying to get my tank up to around 10ppm as I’ve always have issues with low nitrate but nothing seems too unhappy (although I’m not convinced they enjoy when my lights go blue at this time of day)

 

[CHSUB]

I’ve always have issues with low nitrate

This is what is called “hobby observation”. Believing you are having a problem because of one observation and “fixing” that observation while noticing a change. When in reality the problem was not caused by the observation and fixed itself without your interference.

 

[PointerReefs]

I’ve always have issues with low nitrate

This is what is called “hobby observation”. Believing you are having a problem because of one observation and “fixing” that observation while noticing a change. When in reality the problem was not caused by the observation and fixed itself without your interference.

I suppose so.. just don’t want my corals to bleach :(

 

[mcarroll]

Hello again R2R!

Tonight I tested my tank and found my nitrates had gone down from 6ppm to 0.8 somehow. First test for nitrate with Hanna checker actually read out 0.0 second was 0.8. Only algae in my tank really is on my power head. Rocks are pretty clean so is sand bed.. so I don’t think it’s that. Phosphates went down from 1.0 to 0.5 also. But I have been feeding well. Recently switched from reef roids to benereef twice a week mixed with Live Phyto and frozen mysis. And Tdo pellets for the clowns.. is there some reason other than an algae infestation or I suppose bad reagents that could cause this drop? Reagents are not expired and have seemed to test properly previously.

It may just be how this reads on my end, but it sounds like you haven't gotten a repeatable result with the Hanna yet.

If you try again and test the same sample 2-3 times, do you get wide variances like your first experience above? Or do you get almost identical results in all three tests? (Practice more until you get almost identical results every time.)

As others have said, nitrates are not so crucial – ≥ 5 ppm would be more ideal, but I wouldn't sweat it.

Phosphates are much more important, but they are still at/above the recommended level – just don't let it drop more!

Avoid water changes and other nutrient reducing "extras" you might be using.....carbon dosing, mechanical filtration and other things can be disabled until they are needed.

 

[CHSUB]

I suppose so.. just don’t want my corals to bleach :(

More likely with zero po4, but bleaching corals maybe an indicator of low nutrients. However, very, very rarely is it no3 if you have fed fish.

 

[PointerReefs]

I’ll see if I can get a repeatable result. For filtration I have just a filter sock and a skimmer with a ceramic plate in the back chamber. Visually nothing seems out of the ordinary though. I try not to get too into chasing the perfect number but I was intending to raise my nitrates and actually started feeding a bit heavier than I have in the past when I encountered this drop in nutrients. Will get back to you in a bit after a few more tests

 

[CHSUB]

feeding a bit heavier than I have in the past

Increasing feeding is always good if nutrients are low. If you can maintain low values while increasing feeding, that is the ultimate recipe for success.

 

[PointerReefs]

feeding a bit heavier than I have in the past

Increasing feeding is always good if nutrients are low. If you can maintain low values while increasing feeding, that is the ultimate recipe for success.

For sure. The corals have been responding well to the blend I’ve been feeding of benereef phyto and mysis. Nutrients started dropping after I stopped adding reef roids but not sure that’s the correlation.

 

[PointerReefs]

feeding a bit heavier than I have in the past

Increasing feeding is always good if nutrients are low. If you can maintain low values while increasing feeding, that is the ultimate recipe for success.

For sure. The corals have been responding well to the blend I’ve been feeding of benereef phyto and mysis. Nutrients started dropping after I stopped adding reef roids but not sure that’s the correlation.

Oh and the polyp lab aminos

 

[tritonpower]

I have had to dose nitrate in all my tanks. I keep phos around 0.1. SPS seems happy. I dose bright well nitrate (Neo nitro) 2-3x/week to keep nitrate 5-10 (measured with salifert). For whatever reason low nitrates are common in my tanks but easy to fix.

 

[CHSUB]

I have had to dose nitrate in all my tanks

Imo, you want to dose nitrate in all your tanks….as it is almost certainly not necessary except to make the hobbyist feel good.

2-3x/week to keep nitrate 5-10 (measured with salifert

This is a measurement you like and does very little or nothing beneficial to the aquarium inhabitants.

Just saying, no offense.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's no reason to assume that nitrate only bottoms out with excess algae.

All it means is that input is outstripping export. My tank runs a net negative on nitrate, even dosing extra N.

I do not think it is best practice to run undetectable nitrate unless you are very confident that availability of N is not limiting growth of organisms you want. Also watch for potential dinos taking hold at low nutrients.

I suggest that dosing some for of N is desirable in this case, such as food grades of ammonium bicarbonate (my preference), sodium nitrate, or calcium nitrate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Imo, you want to dose nitrate in all your tanks….as it is almost certainly not necessary except to make the hobbyist feel good.

This is a measurement you like and does very little or nothing beneficial to the aquarium inhabitants.

Just saying, no offense.

You cannot know that for his tank. I don't agree that pushing folks to bottom out nutrients is a best practice.

 

[CHSUB]

You cannot know that for his tank. I don't agree that pushing folks to bottom out nutrients is a best practice.

Not pushing just suggesting based on my experience. Which everyone seems to be doing based on their experience with supplementing N. I believe OP and others can make up their own minds and disregard my advice despite my success; maybe I’m just lucky? Haha….Many have insisted my approach, ideas could only be described as wrong and have not let their feelings go unnoticed.

Some comments, so OP beware some loud voices don’t agree with me…also I like the discussion and make no claims that success is a “one way” street.

“‘Again, you are wrong and coming off aggressive”
“want to point out that you are wrong”
“Ok, you obviously know way more about dinos, cyano and nutrients than some of the big names in the hobby. (Insert sarcasm at your own will).”
“And in my opinion CHSUB’s answer is a bit strange and not helpful at all”
“CHSUB is not on board with the observed correlation between bottomed out nutrients on hobby tests and dinos. I don’t agree with him, but I don’t bother with the debate”
“Have you even heard of dino? Please don't give bad advice to people. This is clearly dino and not an algae.”
“I do not agree with most of what you said,”
“Great I hope your new 5 month old tank with 0 detectable nutrients is successful”
“Let us know how your small frags do in your new tank with no nutrients in a few more months”
“Would you just go away? I'm tired of you taking over this thread”


More importantly the discussion about no3 limiting…..I just can’t imagine needing to supplement, Po4 sure. Even a single unfed fish in a moderately sized uncycled aquarium will die of ammonia poisoning before it starves to death. So the amount of nitrogen added must be sufficiently large, add to that multiple fish and feeding? The density of nitrogen using organisms would need to be enormous to produce a deficiency and beyond anything I have seen. Imo, po4 and other nutrients would become limited in a fed aquarium with fish long before nitrogen.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's nothing wrong with expressing opinions or experiences. That's what Reef2Reef is all about.

I just think that it is worth noting that there may well be situations where ones own experience does not translate to the best advice for others with different systems.

In the case of the availability of N for organisms, I think it is clear that there are many possible sources in any given tank system (including ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, urea, amino acids, other dissolved organics, and particulates including bacteria and phytoplankton). Most reefers only have a measure of nitrate. Thus, one person doing fine with very little nitrate may not translate well to a different system where these others may be different.

On a related note, when my opinion differs from others on, say, utility of a questionable ion such as strontium or iodine, my suggestion is typically to experiment on their own tank and see if it makes a difference, rather than stating that one should or should not dose it.