Phosphate Levels

[MoeStachio]

Hey everybody!

So my tank (15ga) is 30days old, well stocked, and everything seems pretty happy aside from a lethargic Halloween Hermit.

Took some readings today and my phosphates are reading at .33 on a Hanna Phosphate ULR

There has been a bunch of rust coloured powdery algae (I assume diatoms) building up on the glass and I'm under the impression the two are related.

I'm going to be dialing back my feeding and do a 20% water change tomorrow.

What are some other suggestions you folks can offer to help me manage my phosphate levels?

Note: turns out I'm out of Nitrate reagents so I couldn't test that. Guess I'm forced to go to the LFS during the 25% off corals event. lol

 

[BryanM]

Seems like a solid plan.

If your fish are happy and eat what you feed within 1-2 min, reducing feeding is not recommended.

You'd want to look in to other nutrient export methods. Skimmer, refugium, algae turf scrubber (What I use), GFO (I also use this now as I am combating ultra high phosphate levels).

I would get that nitrate tested as well... There seems to be some synergy between the two, either or both drop to zero and you have issues.

Last, .3 doesn't really bother me too much. My goal is to get between .1-.3. Enough buffer to not bottom out, which usually causes dino outbreaks, and I've had enough of that nonsense.

 

[Uncle99]

That number is on the higher end for a new system.
You can bring that down easily with Phosphate-E and a tight filter sock.

Just put in a tight filter and add phosphate E to the sock.

Let that run 12-24 hours and pull that tight sock.
Retest, with instructions I would expect you go from .33ppm to .15-.2ppm on your first dose.

Once you get to say .15ppm, then a GFO will help to manage that but don’t let it go zero.

The reason I use the LC type treatment is it’s way, way cheaper.

I’m using Phos 0.04 as a GFO which does not let it go to zero, so, it can be a bit safer.

 

[Pistondog]

0.3 is fine for a new tank. Let it ride for a couple of months.

 

[MoeStachio]

Seems like a solid plan.

If your fish are happy and eat what you feed within 1-2 min, reducing feeding is not recommended.

You'd want to look in to other nutrient export methods. Skimmer, refugium, algae turf scrubber (What I use), GFO (I also use this now as I am combating ultra high phosphate levels).

I would get that nitrate tested as well... There seems to be some synergy between the two, either or both drop to zero and you have issues.

Last, .3 doesn't really bother me too much. My goal is to get between .1-.3. Enough buffer to not bottom out, which usually causes dino outbreaks, and I've had enough of that nonsense.

I've been broadcast feeding, as the tank is scavenger heavy.

Nassarius snails, hermits, etc

But yeah I'll admit I've been overfeeding. They're spoiled.

I try to limit the pellets for the clown, but it's also kinda dumb and doesn't always realize it's being fed, or pellets don't go close enough to the RBTA and it doesn't want to venture out.

However I was feeding a portion of a cube of mysis daily. .25-.33 of a Pisces cube- this was in lieu of pellets for the clown, and to provide for the scavengers and zoas

 

[MoeStachio]

That number is on the higher end for a new system.
You can bring that down easily with Phosphate-E and a tight filter sock.

Just put in a tight filter and add phosphate E to the sock.

Let that run 12-24 hours and pull that tight sock.
Retest, with instructions I would expect you go from .33ppm to .15-.2ppm on your first dose.

Once you get to say .15ppm, then a GFO will help to manage that but don’t let it go zero.

The reason I use the LC type treatment is it’s way, way cheaper.

I’m using Phos 0.04 as a GFO which does not let it go to zero, so, it can be a bit safer.

That's solid advice!

I'm not a huge fan of dosing tho, and the sock in there is already a 100micron

I'll have to look at the pros and cons of GFO

My goal is to work towards a very balanced system that needs little to no intervention aside from glass scrapes and filter changes

 

[MoeStachio]

0.3 is fine for a new tank. Let it ride for a couple of months.

Ok... good to know it's not super terrible.

Thanks!

 

[Uncle99]

That's solid advice!

I'm not a huge fan of dosing tho, and the sock in there is already a 100micron

I'll have to look at the pros and cons of GFO

My goal is to work towards a very balanced system that needs little to no intervention aside from glass scrapes and filter changes

Sometimes, it’s just easier to correct the imbalance, then let the system see if it can handle it.

I’m impressed with Phosphate-E. Was super easy to deploy and quite easily scalable.

I’m ok with a .3ppm level provided it’s not increasing, week over week.

But .3ppm is as far as I dare go in my 7 year system before stuff starts to darken up.

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

If you are feeding mostly dry/powder foods you could switch to frozen.

A lot (but not all) dry foods have a higher po4 content. If you go with PE Mysis or something like that, just rinse it before feeding.

I find that in my tank, when no3 climbs po4 drops and when po4 climbs no3 drops…so I try to find the sweet spot which for me is about .1 po4 and 20 no3.

Lastly, in a 15 gallon tank water changes can do so much for improving water chemistry. That would be my go to in a small tank versus chemicals. In my 450g it’s not as easy since water changes need to be very large to make a dent in no3/po4 reduction.

 

[Garf]

A lot (but not all) dry foods have a higher po4 content.

Are you sure this is correct? I know folk say it all the time but really? Dry foods certainly have a lot less water involved in the equation. Is adding wet foods just not adding less food?

 

[Garf]

Ok... good to know it's not super terrible.

Thanks!

I'm assuming you've converted the ULR reading to ppm, from the reading of phosphorus given by the ULR test, unless that's changed recently.

 

[dvgyfresh]

Phosphate is fine , the rust colored algae leads to me believe your nitrates are very low

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

Are you sure this is correct? I know folk say it all the time but really? Dry foods certainly have a lot less water involved in the equation. Is adding wet foods just not adding less food?

I could be wrong…been so plenty of times in my life. Maybe this is a hobby myth that has been perpetuated for years. I guess the only way to know would be to measure equal amounts of food and test the po4 concentration in each.

I don’t know that adding frozen is adding less food though. LRS/Rods for example has very little water when thawed. Mysis definitely has more water.

 

[exnisstech]

Personally I don't like to intervene on a new tank. I prefer to let the tank mature and see where it settles then decide if action is needed. As far as cleaning glass you may as well get used to that. I have to clean glass in my tank without PO4 0.02 just as often as I do one that is 0.89

 

[MoeStachio]

If you are feeding mostly dry/powder foods you could switch to frozen.

A lot (but not all) dry foods have a higher po4 content. If you go with PE Mysis or something like that, just rinse it before feeding.

I find that in my tank, when no3 climbs po4 drops and when po4 climbs no3 drops…so I try to find the sweet spot which for me is about .1 po4 and 20 no3.

Lastly, in a 15 gallon tank water changes can do so much for improving water chemistry. That would be my go to in a small tank versus chemicals. In my 450g it’s not as easy since water changes need to be very large to make a dent in no3/po4 reduction.

Interesting!

I try to feed a mix, and rotate stuff. Currently using

BRS 1mm Pellets
Hikari Marine S 1mm Pellets
Hikari Mini Tropical Algae Wafers
Rhodomanas Phyto
Pisces frozen mysis


Plus I have some nori sheets the hermits like.

And of course algae in the tank

Interesting, I'll have to pay attention to my NO3 and PO4 levels and see if they correlate

Thanks!

 

[MoeStachio]

Ok... good to know it's not super terrible.

Thanks!

I'm assuming you've converted the ULR reading to ppm, from the reading of phosphorus given by the ULR test, unless that's changed recently.

It comes out in ppm. It's the Phosphourous test that's in ppb (I'm pretty sure)

 

[MoeStachio]

Personally I don't like to intervene on a new tank. I prefer to let the tank mature and see where it settles then decide if action is needed. As far as cleaning glass you may as well get used to that. I have to clean glass in my tank without PO4 0.02 just as often as I do one that is 0.89

Yeah I'm trying to go as natural and balanced as I can. But there seems to be a lot of different opinions on nutrient levels so as I'm no expert ...


Yeah I know I'm gonna be cleaning glass all the time, it's fine. But I'd rather have a tank where that's a large part of weekly maintenance lol

Reading some threads there's apparently tanks that are so balanced water changes are only in emergencies - that's a goal.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Phosphate is fine , the rust colored algae leads to me believe your nitrates are very low

What algae do you believe grows more at lower nitrate?

 

[MoeStachio]

Phosphate is fine , the rust colored algae leads to me believe your nitrates are very low

I had the same rust coloured algae in there last week when I tested 34.8 nitrates on a Hanna tester

(Yes I'm aware that can be skewed by nitrite)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, I compared phosphate levels in a number of foods here:

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-chemistry-phosphate-and-math-yes-you-need-to-understand-both/