Red Sea Seam Failures - Discussion

[Kooma]

Hey, i have some questions as a non-rs tank owner for those with experience.

Ive seen over and over as most have, that the RS tanks fail after a period of time. Looking at the construction and setup, to me there is a fatal flaw in the design from day one that is glaringly obvious and will result in a failure after a period of time.

Ive noted the red sea stand, and the lack of support in the center of the tank, in a area that seems to have failures the most. This area of what seems like a simple ikea particle board stand in my opinion is severely under built and prone to sagging and seal stress.

Has anyone had their seam fail with a RS tank on a steel/aluminum or home made stand?

Has anyone had their seam fail on a rear seam of a RS tank? It seems to always be the front of the tank normally.

Would love your feedback and information. I am genuinely curious about your situation, the failure type, and the setup. Maybe include details on your flooring, stand, leveling and age/failure point.

I have a hunch theres more to it than bad silicone.

 

[freeeeezy]

I don't have one of the big tanks so there may be an engineering difference there, but my 10 year old second hand max nano 20g has no problems at all. Its also on the redsea stand and there aren't any signs of water compromising it.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

I do not believe the stand by itself tells the whole story with the failures. It has everything to do with the type of silicone, curing time, and the mantra of quantity vs. quality. Plenty of other manufacturers have floating front panes.

In my mind, the fatal flaw is the combination of a silicone joint with poor bonding/adhesion AND a joint loaded in peel by a cabinet that sags in the one place the seam can be pried. Proper bonding of the silicone to glass would never cause that without MAJOR deflection.

Did some quick math to prove my point:

On a 4 ft tank with 24 in of water, the front pane is pushed out by about 500 lb. That seam is roughly 1/2 in by 48 in, so even if the seam took the whole load the stress is about 20 psi. The catch is that it does not take the whole load. A realistic share across all front panel seams is roughly 10–15 psi. Good aquarium silicone tears at about 200 psi, so the water is using under a tenth of a properly cured silicone to glass joint. The hanging front pane does not do it either. It weighs about 50 lb, about 1 lb per inch of seam, and a stuck joint peels at tens of pounds per inch.

When you add in the stand, here comes the problem. The door opening is a long span of particle board with nothing under the middle, and particle board creeps. Once a sheet of paper slides under the center, the bottom pane is bridging and the front pane is still held straight by the side seams. The bottom edge drops a millimeter or two relative to the front pane, and that slip is forced across a glue line only about 1 mm thick.

That is a lot of stretch in a very thin layer of silicone. Half a millimeter of deflection is already about 50 psi in the joint. One millimeter is about 100 psi. Two millimeters is about 200 psi, the point where good silicone finally tears. A good joint can live there, because it fails through the elasticity of silicone and can stretch several times its thickness. Failed RSR aquariums peel clean off the glass, so the bond was never that strong in the first place! On a joint that lets go at a few tens of psi, a 0.5 mm sag is already enough, on top of the 10–15 psi from the water. Abnormal stress from twist does the same thing at the corner also as it does int the middle of the pane.

So - it happens primarily from the tick poor silicone bonding/curing and the stand only compounds the problem. If the silicone is good from the get-go, the overall safety factor for the vast majority of tanks is 3+ being that the stresses they will ever see will never cause a failure. RSR killed that factor when they decided to go cheap and quick.

 

[exnisstech]

It has nothing to do with the stands. The problem is the two part fast cure silicone.
My reefer 170 failed and was not caused by the stand. The stand being the cause was just BS spewed by RS to keep the tanks selling. They also said it was only large tanks, more BS.

 

[BryanM]

I have a hunch theres more to it than bad silicone.

Well, there are some on here that have taken the tanks apart, and state that it was exceptionally easy to remove the silicone from the glass.

 

[RoanokeReef]

I like how the new euro braced ones tout the "high-quality euro-silicone"

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

I like how the new euro braced ones tout the "high-quality euro-silicone"

If that silicone is anything like German cars, it will fail SPECTACULARLY right after it goes out of warranty.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@Troylee

 

[PPBlimpy]

I personally blame the silicone.
Go take a razor blade to a RS tank and then to any other.

RS goes thru like butter. Even aqueon tanks you have to muscle and saw thru.

Secondly a non eurobraced g1 is going to put that much more stress on the crappy silicone.

I own a S1000 G2. when the seam starts to show i will take it down and take the glass to a shop and have them cut it to 14" so i can rebuild and turn it into a frag system.

I have rebuilt 3 RS leakers, full pull apart and cleaning, good silicone, added euro brace top and bottom and then let it properly cure for 14-21 days. no issues

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Had some guy on Facebook telling me that red sea is high quality, and everyone's seam failures are because they're negligent and lazy, dont maintain their tanks, and didnt handle it properly moving them. That every tank brand has seam failures but red sea just gets picked on. He must be a rep or something. Also, if your LFS decides not to sell RS after their display tanks fail, its not because your LFS actually made that decision. Red Sea is just very picky about who they allow to sell their tanks lol.

 

[Kooma]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, its nice to see some first hand accounts of issues. I will never buy one nor suggest anyone should, but knowing now that the silicone is that much softer and fails under adhesion, is good information.

I am still interested to see who has had failures on non-RS stands, and where that failure was.

 

[PPBlimpy]

As mentioned above I am RS owner S1000

I have more confidence in the 54g Aqueon corner tank from 2008 that sat dry for 5 years over RS most expensive tank.

I do a quick look over of the seals in the s1000 almost as frequently as I feed my fish.

I have never had a Aqeuon or other pet store tank loose a seal. Either they leak day 1( happened once on a 40g breeder) or not at all

 

[Troylee]

Don’t believe it was the stands at all as water box uses the same type with zero issues. It a silicone defect.

 

[slingfox]

When my RedSea Reefer 525 G2 failed, thank display tank was replaced under warranty by RedSea with a G3. RedSea instructed me to use the old stand . . .