RODI Buddy Help-Filter or Membrane

[UMALUM]

Typical home water pressure is 60-65PSI. Wether regulated or not, 40psi is extremely low for most plumbing fixtures…

Just 3/4” schedule 40 PVC pipe has a safe max operating pressure of 480PSI… let’s be conservative and say the fixtures are on the cheap end; so they can handle maybe 90-100PSI safe max operating pressure…

Says who?
My prv is set between 40 and 50 and these 4 showers will drown you even with multiples running simultaneously. It's not the pvc pipe anyone cares about it what's on the other end.

Hot water Heaters
Dishwashers
Ice makers ect.

First you said it was very unusual to have a regulator which was clearly wrong and now you want to argue "typical" home psi and pvc capabilities. Let's go back to where this started....
The "typical" kitchen or bathroom faucet in most homes simply isn't strong enough to support an rodi. That's my opion and as much as you might think that's "simply not true" there's 3 testimonies to that very fact in this tiny thread.

But hey, I respect your opion and I'm definitely not gonna keep debating something so trivial. For nothing else at least poor little @Freenow54 can rest assured he won't be getting anymore scary questions.

 

[UncommonSense]

Says who?

Says every fixture I’ve ever installed…

Hot water Heaters
Dishwashers
Ice makers ect.

See fixtures.

First you said it was very unusual to have a regulator which was clearly wrong

No, I said it is unusual to have indoor plumbing pressure regulated separately from outdoor plumbing.

The "typical" kitchen or bathroom faucet in most homes simply isn't strong enough to support an rodi. That's my opion

Enough said.

 

[exnisstech]

The only time I have ever seen a regulator installed in every home was when I did a job for the municipality and the subdivision was on a well so just like in a normal town the pressure was higher at the source and calculated to be normal about 65psig at the far end. I would complain if I was you. Cant you adjust it yourself?

I adjusted the regulator but 40ish psi is it.
I'm not in a municipality but a rural area sitting just north of the continental divide. Our water is pumped miles to get here. When we were looking at property we had to stay North of the divide if we wanted what is called rural water which is similar to city water. Other wise it would have had to been a well and I grew up on well and it was not good water. I don't know about the divide and water flow and all that but we were told no taps were being sold south of divide.
Rambling because I think some if us have totally different stuff going on when it comes to utilities.

 

[00W]

Coming in late here.
I rarely get involved in threads anymore but here goes.
I've been running a 50 gpd buddie for about 6 years.
I make over 100 gallons a month.
When I started using it, coming in tds was 12.
Now, after 700 billion people have moved here it's about 83.
This has put a bigger strain on the filters.
I replace all of them every 6 months and replace the membrane yearly.
I don't care how long they say they're supposed to last.
They last a year.
I was having a 13 final tds issue after replacing the di resin twice.
Sure enough looking back on my orders it had been a year for the membrane.
I've done that twice now.
Look.
This is a fabulous system for the price.
There are replacement membranes on Amazon for $16.
My house pressure is 42.
The buddie says minimum 35 .
They sell booster pumps online for $129.
I base my membrane performance on how slow I get good water.
Once it starts flying out of there, new membrane time.
Gauges are cheap.
Amazon there too. 5 minutes, gauge is installed.
Tds meters are cheap and easy to install.
We're all here to help you install anything in line with this system.
Just ask.
Between meters, gauge and system I spent $100.
What I've found with this system is it's either the membrane or di resin.
My water pressure drops below 35 when my sprinklers are going and I have no issues.
I've got mine hooked up to my washing machine on a t.
Hope this helps.
Have any questions, just ask.
I'm not a plumber, mechanic, ro specialist, scientist or water expert. Im just a mediocre reefer and this is my experience with this system.
Good luck.
Joel

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

Single RO membranes typically like having over 40psi to operate efficiently… is it possible you were making water during a time when you had very low home water pressure?

Be careful here...

Genuine FILMTEC membranes are spec'ed (factory tested) at 50 psi, and will operate reasonably well down to 40 psi.

The imported/off brand membranes in the RO Buddy systems are spec'ed at 65 psi.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

I don't know why but my membranes clog every 9 months to a year. Been like that for many years. I ran dual 75 gpd as well as single 100 gpd. I keep up on sediment and carbon filters but my membranes still clog. Dow filmtec as well as off brands.

The most common cause of membranes "clogging" is scale. That is, hardness scale made primarily of calcium and magnesium comes out of solution and forms scale inside the RO element. Do you know anything about your water hardness?

In commercial applications where replacement membranes can be very expensive, and the feedwater is hard, a water softener is a mandatory pretreatment.

In this hobby there are vendors who encourage users to restrict the flow of concentrate (aka waste water) too much, or even add a second membrane in series and call it a "water saver." That configuration is advisable with soft water. Either situation, if used with hard water, will lead to premature scaling of the membrane(s).

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

Hi Reefers,

Tonight is the first time the TDS has officially went from zero to 17 from the last water change. I noticed the flow was a little off but not supper slow.

Do I change the membrane or DI? I wouldn’t have thought that I needed to change the membrane until next year but what do you think? I’ve been trying to find the answers online but it’s kind of confusing. I’ve only been running it since April-ish? It’s not been 6 months. What about sediment since it kinda slowed down some?

This is what it looks like tonight.

Honestly, why not change all the canisters at once? If one has already gone, the others probably won't last much longer.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

Honestly, why not change all the canisters at once? If one has already gone, the others probably won't last much longer.

I tend to give the opposite advice. Only change prefilters, or membranes, or DI when that specific stage needs to be changed. Each is on a different schedule/timeline.

 

[exnisstech]

The most common cause of membranes "clogging" is scale. That is, hardness scale made primarily of calcium and magnesium comes out of solution and forms scale inside the RO element. Do you know anything about your water hardness?

In commercial applications where replacement membranes can be very expensive, and the feedwater is hard, a water softener is a mandatory pretreatment.

In this hobby there are vendors who encourage users to restrict the flow of concentrate (aka waste water) too much, or even add a second membrane in series and call it a "water saver." That configuration is advisable with soft water. Either situation, if used with hard water, will lead to premature scaling of the membrane(s).

Appreciate you stopping by. Any advice is greatly appreciated
Its really an annoying mystery to me. I don't know anything about my water hardness but I'm on rural water not a well which is basically City water. I run an ro buddy booster pump so no restrictor on the waste line because the booster pump is supposed to control that IIRC. I noticed with a new membrane the pressure gauge on the membrane housing reads 80 psi. As time goes by the pressure increases and RO output decreases. I replaced the membrane less than a month ago and the pressure has already Increased to the point it is now has the gauge pegged and RO output is slowly starting to decrease. I replaced the sediment filter and carbon block also when I replaced the membrane. I'm currently running a 100 gpd membrane by membrane solutions but the last membrane was a Dow filmtec 75gpd that completely plugged in 9 months. Sediment and carbon blocks are from BRS the actual RO system is a buckeye hydro unit purchased at my LFS a few years ago. I have also switched the booster pump to rule it out as a cause. I make about 50 gallons of RODI a week and also use RO for drinking. I have the line out of the membrane split going to the di resin and the pressure tank for the kitchen faucet. I do have a check valve installed on the line going to the pressure tank.
At one point I removed all filters and di cartridges so it was basically nothing but the membrane in line to verify the membrane is the cause of the restriction.

Here is the most recent water report if it helps.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

Appreciate you stopping by. Any advice is greatly appreciated
Its really an annoying mystery to me. I don't know anything about my water hardness but I'm on rural water not a well which is basically City water. I run an ro buddy booster pump so no restrictor on the waste line because the booster pump is supposed to control that IIRC. I noticed with a new membrane the pressure gauge on the membrane housing reads 80 psi. As time goes by the pressure increases and RO output decreases. I replaced the membrane less than a month ago and the pressure has already Increased to the point it is now has the gauge pegged and RO output is slowly starting to decrease. I replaced the sediment filter and carbon block also when I replaced the membrane. I'm currently running a 100 gpd membrane by membrane solutions but the last membrane was a Dow filmtec 75gpd that completely plugged in 9 months. Sediment and carbon blocks are from BRS the actual RO system is a buckeye hydro unit purchased at my LFS a few years ago. I have also switched the booster pump to rule it out as a cause. I make about 50 gallons of RODI a week and also use RO for drinking. I have the line out of the membrane split going to the di resin and the pressure tank for the kitchen faucet. I do have a check valve installed on the line going to the pressure tank.
At one point I removed all filters and di cartridges so it was basically nothing but the membrane in line to verify the membrane is the cause of the restriction.

Here is the most recent water report if it helps.

I looked up your full report and as is typical, they do not report water hardness (they are not required to report it). But rest assured, they measure it. Call them @ (440) 355-5121 and ask them what the hardness is.

Also noted they report "Total Chlorine" rather than free chlorine - so also ask them what they use for a disinfectant - it will either be chlorine, or it will be chloramine.

Report back here or give us a call with that data and we can go from there.

Also - dig into your system and figure out which flow restrictor you have installed. You absolutely have one, or your pressure gauge, even with a pump, would show something very low like 10 psi. Call when you are in front of the system if you need help finding it. Heck, with all the changes you've made you may have more than one restrictor installed... this would very much affect your membrane lifespan.

Lastly, I'll invite you to come back to www.buckeyehydro.com for your water treatment/RODI shopping!

 

[KStatefan]

@exnisstech or measure your permeate flow and waste flow and calculate what your ratio or recovery percentage is. I use a graduated cylinder and time 30 seconds and record volume then calculate.

From the maps it looks like Ohio has some locations with hard to very hard water.

 

[exnisstech]

@exnisstech or measure your permeate flow and waste flow and calculate what your ratio or recovery percentage is. I use a graduated cylinder and time 30 seconds and record volume then calculate.

From the maps it looks like Ohio has some locations with hard to very hard water.

I'm in the white so still a bit hard. Do you have the math formula to use? Preferably at an 8th grade level I have a couple of graduated cylinders here.

 

[KStatefan]

I'm in the white so still a bit hard. Do you have the math formula to use? Preferably at an 8th grade level I have a couple of graduated cylinders here.

Your water treatment system could be reduce the hardness also. The town I work in had a RO facility so the hardness is less than my home where the treatment is minimal

Waste volume/permeate volume will give you the ratio

 

[UncommonSense]

Do you have the math formula to use? Preferably at an 8th grade level I have a couple of graduated cylinders here.

You’re just measuring how much water comes out from your RO waste water line, and how much water comes out of your RO product water line over any given run interval!

This tells you what % of all water through the system is discarded as waste water (effluent), and what % is product water (permeate)!

— single membrane systems run typically around 4:1 waste:product ration, or 80% waste, 20% product!

 

[exnisstech]

Also - dig into your system and figure out which flow restrictor you have installed. You absolutely have one, or your pressure gauge, even with a pump, would show something very low like 10 psi. Call when you are in front of the system if you need help finding it. Heck, with all the changes you've made you may have more than one restrictor installed... this would very much affect your membrane lifespan.

No flow restrictor. Its built into the pump I'm using. I thought it was but I wasn't positive.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

Open up that plastic box and see what flow restrictor they installed.

 

[ScottD]

Open up that plastic box and see what flow restrictor they installed.

From personal experience of opening it up myself, It’s a 300cc restrictor that is built into the solenoid valve from what I could tell.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

...It’s a 300cc restrictor that is built into the solenoid valve

Well, there's the issue.

Assuming you have hard water, that 300 ml/min flow restrictor is what you'd want to use with a 50 gpd membrane.

You've been using it with a 150 gpd (two 75's) or a 100 gpd membrane. You have insufficient concentrate flow and you are scaling your membrane. That's why they plug so quickly.

 

[exnisstech]

Well, there's the issue.

Assuming you have hard water, that 300 ml/min flow restrictor is what you'd want to use with a 50 gpd membrane.

You've been using it with a 150 gpd (two 75's) or a 100 gpd membrane. You have insufficient concentrate flow and you are scaling your membrane. That's why they plug so quickly.

Ok I'm at a loss. I have ran 2 75 gpd membranes in the paste but it's been a few years. I'm currently running a 75 gpd membrane and it's plugged already in 30 days. I've been using this same pump for 8 years and this issues has only started happening maybe 6-8 months ago.
I did test the output volumes and in 30 seconds I got over 200ml of waste and and a measley 35 ml of product. This is with the 30 day old 75 gpd membrane.

EDIT: I went over everything to make sure nothing was connected wrong since I did relocate the system a while back. I installed a new 75 gpd membrane and a new sediment filter. I had a new identical booster pump on the shelf so I replaced that on the chance maybe something is wrong with the flow restrictor / solenoid. It was 300cc as was mentioned previously. I guess I'll run it and see what happens.
Pressure is good but it always is when a new membrane is installed then it gradually increases as it starts to plug.


EDIT 2: i compared the product output to the waste with the new membrane on a 30 second timer and it doesn't sound correct if it's supposed to be 4:1 but my pea brain has no idea what it means.
Product 240ml
Waste 180ml

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

You'll ruin the new membrane in no time. Suggest you call us when you are in front of the system, and of course that you start buying all your RODI supplies from a vendor with the technical expertise to help you (that is, Buckeye Hydro).