Sensitive Gate Valve

[CodyRVA]

Anyone have any ideas why my gate valve is extremely sensitive? Sensitive to the point that it's essentially impossible to get the water level in my overflow box to remain constant. I'm using a ESHOPPS Prodigy M overflow. I have a bulkhead overflow strainer in my primary bulkhead and the stock overflow pipe in my secondary bulkhead.

When I say this thing is sensitive, it is, even turning the dial without actually turning it, just applying a bit of pressure, is enough to change the water level. And it's not consistent. The overflow box will have the perfect water level for 5ish or so minutes then you suddenly hear the overflow pipe trickling water. Or it's too far open and you hear the strainer on the primary bulkhead sucking air. I've tried turning the DC pump up and down, makes no difference.

The gate valve is positioned 8-10 inches below the overflow box, on the back side of the tank/stand.

 

[UncommonSense]

Anyone have any ideas why my gate valve is extremely sensitive? Sensitive to the point that it's essentially impossible to get the water level in my overflow box to remain constant. I'm using a ESHOPPS Prodigy M overflow. I have a bulkhead overflow strainer in my primary bulkhead and the stock overflow pipe in my secondary bulkhead.

When I say this thing is sensitive, it is, even turning the dial without actually turning it, just applying a bit of pressure, is enough to change the water level. And it's not consistent. The overflow box will have the perfect water level for 5ish or so minutes then you suddenly hear the overflow pipe trickling water. Or it's too far open and you hear the strainer on the primary bulkhead sucking air. I've tried turning the DC pump up and down, makes no difference.

The gate valve is positioned 8-10 inches below the overflow box, on the back side of the tank/stand.

Is your primary drain outlet in the sump submerged? This can cause some weird effects…

 

[CodyRVA]

Is your primary drain outlet in the sump submerged? This can cause some weird effects…

Not really, I have it going into a media basket with some filter floss. It's not submerged, but it is low in the media basket. I can certainly swap out the pipe for a shorter one and see what happens.

 

[UncommonSense]

Not really, I have it going into a media basket with some filter floss. It's not submerged, but it is low in the media basket. I can certainly swap out the pipe for a shorter one and see what happens.

Hmm… it’s likely not the issue… is the gate valve a name brand one? There shouldn’t be enough backlash in the handle for just pressure on it to appreciably affect flow!

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

I was gonna say maybe your return pump is surging/not pumping consistently?

It sounds like you tried adjusting that though and still have the same issue.

How long has this been set up/going on?

I have two tanks and both have the primary drain under water by a couple of inches with no issues.

This might sound silly, but have you tried it with your drain line submerged?

 

[CodyRVA]

Hmm… it’s likely not the issue… is the gate valve a name brand one? There shouldn’t be enough backlash in the handle for just pressure on it to appreciably affect flow!

Yea, it's from BRS. I've actually wondered if they sold me a dud. Can the plastic fitting on top of the knob be tightened?

 

[UncommonSense]

Yea, it's from BRS. I've actually wondered if they sold me a dud. Can the plastic fitting on top of the knob be tightened?

I’m not familiar with that specific valve, but typically, yes!

 

[CodyRVA]

I was gonna say maybe your return pump is surging/not pumping consistently?

It sounds like you tried adjusting that though and still have the same issue.

How long has this been set up/going on?

I have two tanks and both have the primary drain under water by a couple of inches with no issues.

This might sound silly, but have you tried it with your drain line submerged?

I've contemplated this as well. Currently the primary drain goes into the media basket which sets in water, but the pipe is not submerged... unless somehow it starts to create a siphon when the filter media gets exhausted and the basket drains water slower? I've seriously debated doing away with the media basket entirely, it's kind of a pain. I opted for it because I decided to go sockless on this build.

This is a new system, only been running for about a month or so.

 

[CodyRVA]

I’m not familiar with that specific valve, but typically, yes!

Gate Valve Slip x Slip

Schedule 80 Spears Gate Valves will provide smooth, lasting operation while giving your aquarium a professional look. Gate valves are used for any application that requires precise control such as skimmers or silent overflows. Slip x Slip Smooth long term operation Precise tuning More...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[UncommonSense]

Gate Valve Slip x Slip

Schedule 80 Spears Gate Valves will provide smooth, lasting operation while giving your aquarium a professional look. Gate valves are used for any application that requires precise control such as skimmers or silent overflows. Slip x Slip Smooth long term operation Precise tuning More...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Hmm, it looks like Spears switched from a nut to a screw for the handle over the years! — that screw can be used to tighten the handle if it’s physically loose…

If you’re trying to tighten the valve inside the housing itself; it’s the hex right below the red handle!

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

Gate Valve Slip x Slip

Schedule 80 Spears Gate Valves will provide smooth, lasting operation while giving your aquarium a professional look. Gate valves are used for any application that requires precise control such as skimmers or silent overflows. Slip x Slip Smooth long term operation Precise tuning More...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I’m running two of these valves as well. A 1.5” on the 450g and a 1” on the 270g.

They are pricey but well built. Hopefully you didn’t get a dud.

 

[Flukes]

I recommend submerging the outlet pipe for a try. Once the outlet pipe/hose is air free then you will have a constant flow through the gate valve. At that point you should find the gate valve to be more predictable. Otherwise letting air travel up the pipe will cause a varying flow.

 

[CodyRVA]

I recommend submerging the outlet pipe for a try. Once the outlet pipe/hose is air free then you will have a constant flow through the gate valve. At that point you should find the gate valve to be more predictable. Otherwise letting air travel up the pipe will cause a varying flow.

I'll give this a try and remove the media basket in the process. Thanks!

 

[fish_collector]

I recommend submerging the outlet pipe for a try. Once the outlet pipe/hose is air free then you will have a constant flow through the gate valve. At that point you should find the gate valve to be more predictable. Otherwise letting air travel up the pipe will cause a varying flow.

This! Submerge the outlet a few inches underwater in the sump and it will work much better.

I have found on my tank when the filter sock begins to clog and the water level in the sock starts to rise, the water level in the overflow box will also rise due to the dynamics of being a full siphon. It's very stable otherwise, that's why we use a gate valve. Once you've got the outlet under water, start with gate valve wide open and slowly close it until the water level in your overflow box is where you want it, then give it a little while to find it's balance. You may have to give the valve 1/16 of a turn at a time to get just the right restriction. You'll get it just be patient, that method is in use on thousands of our tanks and it works.

 

[CodyRVA]

This! Submerge the outlet a few inches underwater in the sump and it will work much better.

I have found on my tank when the filter sock begins to clog and the water level in the sock starts to rise, the water level in the overflow box will also rise due to the dynamics of being a full siphon. It's very stable otherwise, that's why we use a gate valve. Once you've got the outlet under water, start with gate valve wide open and slowly close it until the water level in your overflow box is where you want it, then give it a little while to find it's balance. You may have to give the valve 1/16 of a turn at a time to get just the right restriction. You'll get it just be patient, that method is in use on thousands of our tanks and it works.

Thanks for the insight! I've used gate valves before, similar setup, that's why I felt like I was going crazy. I'm hopefully going to swap some plumbing today and give this a test. I replaced the media in the basket last night and seemingly now that it's partially exhausted and the rate at which the water is leaving the basket has slowed, thus the end of the pipe is sitting in water, the water level in the overflow box has been more stabile. All that said, I have no doubt this is probably the culprit.

 

[CodyRVA]

Thanks everyone, looks like the problem might be resolved by adjusting my primary drain further into my sump tank. I posted an updated to my build thread.