Should certain fish/inverts be left on the reef and NEVER be sold?

[revhtree]

Should certain fish/inverts be left on the reef and NEVER be sold? Cleaner Wrasses, Harlequin Filefish, etc. :crossedlips:

What is your opinion?

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[thewackyreefer]

I believe we should leave those that are limited in number on the reef.

I don't believe that we should leave those that we know are "difficult to keep" on the reef just because they have been known to be "difficult to keep" in the past. There are TONS of corals out there that could have never been kept in a reef aquarium in the past that are now able to thrive due to advances in technology, knowledge, etc.

 

[bairdimusprime]

i say if something has an incredibly high fatality rate in the home aquaria yes it should be kept in the reef.. such as Ritteri Anemone..

 

[returnofsid]

A fish/invert that has proven difficult to keep, in the past, might not be enough of a reason to halt collection, though it might. For instance, an obligate feeder should probably be left on the reef, in most cases. If a fish MUST eat corals to survive, or has another type of very specialized diet, it shouldn't be collected. As an example, I've seen fish, that only eat corals, for sale at Petco. Not only do the employees not know of this fish's very specialized diet, the employees aren't going to tell the customers just how difficult this fish is to keep, because of ignorance. This fish is destined to die. In other cases, I do have a LFS in my area who has ordered and sold fish that are obligate coralivores. However, this LFS owner is very knowlegable and would only order this type of fish if he had a strong chance of meeting it's needs and knew it was going to a home with a strong chance of meeting it's needs.

So, it's difficult to say that these types of animals should NEVER be collected. However, I do believe that a lot fewer of them should be collected.

Then we have fish that USED to be considered difficult to keep, such as Moorish Idols, which are becoming easier to keep, with more specialized foods becoming available and more being learned about this particular fish's habits. If a decision had been made to NEVER collect Moorish Idols, the advances that make them easier to keep may not have ever been made.

Then we have fish, such as Bengai Cardinals, which are becoming very easy to breed in captivity, while nearing an endangered level in some areas, that are still collected from the wild. This makes absolutely no sense. The hobby can be supplied by captive bred Bengais, allowing the wild population to rebound.

 

[Ace25]

Dang, wrote this all out and returnofsid beat me to it. Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I had a cleaner wrasse for 9 years, did great, but I wouldn't do another one. While mine ate everything, towards the end of its life it was super aggressive about cleaning (ripping scales off fish). That it was enough for me to really understand why it wasn't suitable in my tank. It is very difficult to have a large enough tank with enough fish stocked in it to make a cleaner wrasse truly happy. For smaller tanks, the cleaner goby is a much better solution.

Harlequin Filefish have spawned in a few peoples tanks, so I would say they are not "difficult" in the sense they don't handle captivity well, they do just fine as long as the have a proper tank setup. Their care requirements are very specific though so if one considers this fish there has to be a lot of pre-planning to make a suitable home for it. Myself, I have a tank full of leopard wrasses, every one is "difficult" to keep going by online sites, but I made sure to have a proper tank and suitable tank mates and they do great.

I do agree with your title, there are certain fish that should never be sold to hobbyist (public aquariums and research places are different), I don't necessarily agree with your 2 examples. While I don't think a cleaner wrasse is good in the majority of tanks out there (mine included), it is suitable for some, and they are not a rare or endangered fish. Who am I to tell someone with a 2000G tank with 20+ tangs they can't buy a cleaner wrasse if they think their tank is suitable.

I can think of one solution that would help lower the mortality rate of difficult fish, but I just don't think people would go for it. Have "Aquarium Inspectors". Someone you would pay, who is somehow licensed/qualified (not sure how to do that) to inspect and document your tank for an annual fee to certify what it can handle, and then have a system where LFS/online stores can log on and check your tanks qualifications. I just don't see people willing to pay for something like that, nor do I see LFS and online stores wanting to add extra steps in the sales process, but I can still dream of ways to help our fish friends.

2 of the most common and easily bred fish are actually hurting in their wild population. Ocellaris Clownfish and Bangaii cardinals. To me, those are 2 fish we should no longer need to remove from the ocean. We can easily breed them now so why not make them a "captive bred only" species to sell to hobbyist. As we get better at breeding other types of fish, we can then take those off the "wild caught" list as well. A larger and larger part of the corals we obtain today are captive raised at this point. There is becoming less reason to take so many from the oceans due to our understanding on care and propagation, hopefully our knowledge of fish breeding can catch up to that of corals and one day make it so we never have to touch the ocean in order to have a living slice of it in our homes. We can do that today, but our fish selection is very limited.

You asked for an opinion, you got a small book. LOL :smile:

 

[Russellaqua]

My preference would be to have the difficult or 'impossible' species be collected in limited numbers for study by trained biologists at aquariums. There is no reason for amateur hobbyists to be experimenting with lives in large numbers because we like the way they look. Leave it to professionals and allow them to write about their findings. Better communication between the marine biologists and hobbyists would benefit both sides, but the animals most of all.

 

[blackx-runner]

I wasn't aware cleaner wrasse were difficult to keep. After reading this thread I had to go look at live aquaria and sure enough its listed as difficult.
I've had one I bought from a local club member that seems to be doing great in my tank. Eats almost anything and seems to do a good job at keeping all the tangs clean. Hopefully my "luck" holds out with this guy. He's a cool little addition to the tank.

 

[rhibear]

Proper education would/should preclude the need for such a question. If suppliers and hobbyists were fully aware re: the requirements, survival prospects in captivity/shipping, and the impact of removal from the reef (as in the case of removal of many anemone species where all previously hosted individuals die within 24 hours and often vice versa) then assuming a functioning conscience (perhaps a bad assumption?) these species that suffer massive deleterious effects from capture would never see the inside of a tank.
Even assuming faulty consciences at multiple levels in the supply chain, with proper education at the source of the demand our impact would eventually be reduced. This is why the internet and forums specifically are so valuable to the survival of the hobby and the reefs.

 

[caudill187]

I'd throw in the mix the idea that while there are certain fish that seem to die in captivity 90% of the time and should probably not be collected, the biggest threat to our reefs are carbon dioxide from industry and cars and runoff from mass agriculture......by far. Overall, I'd say the negative impact of the aquarium industry on the health of coral reefs is small and is even positive in many respects. If we want to be vocal about something that is damaging our reefs and make a difference.....let's find alternatives to fossil fuels, or just implement the ones we already have. My 2 cents...

 

[revhtree]

Great comments everyone.

 

[cdness]

There are some fish I would say are for sure not for the beginner or average hobbyest. However many of the "difficult" fish can be kept fine with the right knowledge. Here are some personal examples:

Cleaner Wrasse: I have had mine for at least 3 years and it is as fat as can be. It is eating frozen home made food as well as flakes daily. This is not a 100% for everyone, but it is working for me...

Linkia Starfish: Many people say these just tend to dwindle and fade away in their tanks. They are thriving in mine due to the large amount of sponge growth. They will eat the sponges and they have been growing. I have had two of them for about 3 years.

Moorish Idols: I do not have one of these because they are on the difficult side, more than I want to take on. I had a friend who had 4 of them and all of them passed away in a 600 gallon tank. Over the past couple years though more foods have become available where it may have dropped the difficulty of the fish a bit for an "informed" hobbyest.

People need to be able to judge for themselves what they are capable of caring for. Knowledge is the best thing when it comes to fish care as if you don't have the knowledge on the specific requirements you will not have success. I personally know my limit at the moment and am not going to trek into the other species where I am not confident I can care for them.

Also leaving the research to the pros means there will be no or very little progress. Not too many places will fund research where there is no demand. The hobby itself has provided so many findings and breakthroughs that could have never happened if it was just pros doing the research. I look up to those doing captive propagation of corals and enduring the tasks of trying to get new fish species to breed in captivity. We all should look up to you and help support your efforts as it makes the hobby better in the long run.

 

[evolved]

Here's why I am completely against cleaner wrasses being available in the trade:

Collection of them from wild reefs creates a negative impact on the reefs from which they are removed.

Let alone the poor survival rate they have in captivity. For every success story, there are hundreds of failures.