Stalled Cycle?

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Just to add one more small prediction element based on your bioload and surface area above: I predict the two fish alone will not drive up nh3 free ammonia it’ll run neutralized any number of days.

Only the boosted protein degradation / extended cumulative effect of a few feed pellets in the matrix at the bottom will be a true testing load eventually, feed counts more than the bioload portion I did not forget Lasse mentioning that in a cycling duel from 2019. It’s playing out here, his observation
 
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BeTreyed

BeTreyed

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both water changes included me cleaning the bottom of anything i could siphon up. i just worry that without knowing what my true ammonia numbers are things could go from good to bad in hours, only to wake up to my tank cloudy and fish dead. how often should i continue the water changes? daily would be quite costly.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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It will be proportional to fish feed droppings, if each pellet can be accounted for it won’t rise uncontrollably. the fish will reliably show a behavioral change if affected and if feed winds up in the flooring area it’s not like a normal reef where other animals act on it quickly, here it degrades slowly and in compound with other proteins that may deposit.

hey have you added any meds yet that affect the filter bac, or is this an observation setup no meds currently

moving all the flooring into a mesh bag in a canister or hob fikter would make floor space open for export. You’re removing a quarter gallon routinely now to scoop up waste vs widespread siphoning and jabs currently that take more water to clean out spaces.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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many folks add prime to offset these issues in quarantining but there’s a thread right now in the chem forum testing prime and showing it not working as claimed, and it will change test accuracy once used whether or not it actually helps with ammonia or not.


the one thing I would change to decrease work is to re allocate the bottom flooring, it’s more efficient as a filter with water going through it anyway, merely over it is a massive efficiency loss


if you move that all to two cheap wal mart hob filters in a mesh bag you’re set, and the working ability of the bacteria on the filter zones will increase because flow contacts all areas and refreshes much quicker than swirling currents push waste through the material as flooring, it’ll help ammonia better to re allocate that flooring. It’ll boost efficiency.


then when you see two or three pellets on the bottom they’re not obscured and can be quick siphoned out, two quarts of water to fully clean the bottom once it’s wide open floor.
 
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Dan_P

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@brandon429

So far the clowns are doing great. they've been eating well, although that has been a little bit of an issue. they tend to either spit out a lot or let some fall to the floor. so I've started feeding tiny bits at a time so i can make sure they are eating all that goes in. the water quality/clarity has been great. this weekend i noticed the color of the alert badge had creeped up to the first color (pea green) or 0.05 (i really wonder if these are actually that sensitive). that is what prompted me to be a little bit more controlled in my feeding them.

I've done a 25% water change the past 2 days, and no change on the alert badge. should i be concerned or is this just another poor ammonia test and i should depend on behavior and water clarity. the big reason i ask is that i havent started any prophylactic treatment because i know some meds can adversely affect ammonia or the biofilter.

thanks
20210831_185051.jpg
Yes, the ammonia alert badge is that sensitive. Depending on pH and temperature total ammonia is between 0.5 and 1 ppm.

I missed your initial post. I was going to say that Bio-Spira and Fritz Turbo establish a nitrifying population of bacteria extremely quickly. Microbacter 7 maybe not so fast and/or the bottle was bad. You really did have a stuck cycle.

Contrary to the advice that your initial salinity was too low, it is actually a good way to establish a nitrite oxidizing bacteria population quickly.

As for the ammonia API test, it works just fine when total ammonia levels are above 0.25 ppm. I suspect it would show a clear sign of ammonia in your QT with a free ammonia of 0.05 ppm.

Your fish are doing fine because of the current pH and temperature. Do not raise the temperature or worse raise the pH as that will increase the free ammonia level, potentially harming the fish.

Good luck!
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I asked in the quarantine forum just now how they handle nitrification issues when eventually dosing filter-killing meds, the response from MiamiReef, Jay and Brew was that partial water changes are the workhorse. They never dose prime in quarantines that will use copper for safety reasons, aside from it’s inaction Dan has studied. They use careful monitoring of free ammonia and then just change water to mitigate, thats handy to know I never was sure how they managed feeding and bioloading in surface area-restricted systems that actually can run low on bacteria. Needing to do partial water changes to keep a qt tank alive seems part and parcel to owning a qt setup. Thank goodness only a few weeks then into the dt for normal runnings

I like how pH mention from Dan above also plays into the sustain time in between water changes, he’s saying keeping a consistent pH in the upper range provides ammonia protection. That’s gold info for our cycling thread.
 
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BeTreyed

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Thanks for asking.

Tank and tankmates are doing great.

Water clarity is good, ammonia appears to be controlled at the same level, no matter what i do. something to keep in mind is that my alert badge was doing the same prior to the ~100% water change. never went below or above that alert stage.

I've bagged up the ceramic and placed the bags in an area of flow for now until i get another HOB.

I started PraziPro on Thursday.

Fish are doing great and eating like piggies.

I'll be doing a 50% water change tomorrow, i can see all the left over food and other material on the floor of the tank now.

pH has been stable ever since that first large water change. its holding at 8.3
 
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brandon429

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how are things so far, still using this prime work example thread

other setups are already copying the duration and ratios from this thread and we chat about adjustments.
 
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brandon429

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I would disassembly- clean it and put them right back in all new water. Not saying the scums are imminently harmful but to control them in a zone where only waste exists, no CUC or benthic animals to control masses, by hand will work. Any bio media that’s currently running can be rinsed off in RO di water harmlessly to make sure it doesn’t have slime for the new cleaned setup, it’s bioload carry will remain when reinstated.

Then when apart the tank can be cleaned / rinsed out any time you feel it’s time to intervene. If it’s light right now then maybe can take a while, but I bet direct export is how to fix vs a dose or any type of environmental balance.


***thank you for updating this completes the entire lifespan analysis of a quarantine cycle, it will be a permanent top read in our study thread for years and years. Thank you for great science documentation your post has already resulted in multiple new quarantines set up they’ve directly messaged me after reading your thread.
 
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BeTreyed

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Do just small water changes. It helped me when I added stability daily for almost a month. A capful is what I needed for my 13.5 gallon.
thanks for the reply.

i was doing only 25% water changes until this happened, then bumped up to larger water changes.

I would disassembly- clean it and put them right back in all new water. Not saying the scums are imminently harmful but to control them in a zone where only waste exists, no CUC or benthic animals to control masses, by hand will work. Any bio media that’s currently running can be rinsed off in RO di water harmlessly to make sure it doesn’t have slime for the new cleaned setup, it’s bioload carry will remain when reinstated.
yeah, the only reason i haven't done 100% is i only have a max of 15g for my mixing vessel, i need to get a brute container but apartment life and a 2 year old, not many places to put it
***thank you for updating this completes the entire lifespan analysis of a quarantine cycle, it will be a permanent top read in our study thread for years and years.
i appreciate all your help! I'm glad i could help too
 

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