Trident vs Alkatronic vs KH Director vs kh guardian

Kyl

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Everyone is going to place different values to each unit. While I have not purchased my choice yet, I'll go through the methodology that lead to my decision as I have finalised it (just tying up some other loose ends before ordering). Keep in mind I am not in the US (Canada), so pricing is higher over-all, and with some things much higher right now.

Cost is a factor, but I am ignoring up-front costs as this hobby isn't one of short term buys. Total cost of ownership after a year plus is my baseline, and all the units, sans the KHG are close enough in overall cost after purchase / operation for said year to me that it's a wash. With that out of the way, I then looked at how they operate. I am after testing dKH for daily monitoring, and initially want to test it about 8x a day while I get things dialled in, rolling that back to 2x a day once it is. That excludes one solution right off the bat, leaving three.

Next was testing methodology, the remaining three all use PH based testing with an acid based reagent, and all should have similar reagent costs within a few cents. Test sample volumes don’t affect my choice as my tanks are on AWC, and can simply reduce the amount per day removed by awc to compensate for the amount removed from alk testing. Or apparently the reagent / sample mixture can be returned to the tank, if indeed it is simply an acid the only impact should be a ph / alkalinity drop in that ~50-100ml of water. That’s a specific use case decision, as I have noted, these testers are a full of specific use case reasoning.

Then it comes to company. I am not willing to entertain the KHG simply because the sole point of support for me, North of the border would be the distributor. Perhaps there would be no issue, but history has taught me otherwise with ‘niche’ hardware releases handled by a second party and having the border involved, should something go south. It ultimately came down to the KHD or Alkatronic. Build quality seems similar, at least to the point it was not the deciding factor. Maintenance costs will both include the PH probe at some point, and since the KH D relies on a 2.1 doser, it seems parts are a bit more readily available should I require servicing a pump or the head cap. They both have a good release history that has had issues but all current owners I've talked to are happy with their purchase, most stating every issue brought up has been addressed be it hardware or software.

So with both remaining options quite similar and given I am changing ecosystems it made sense to go with the KH Director. If I was remaining with the controller ecosystem I have now, the decision would have been Alkatronic since it can report via BNC back to an Apex using a “dKH” PH tile.

I think that's as neutral as you can get from someone that is still on the dKH monitoring side-lines, has rather extensively examined all the major market options at this point in time and is excluding all other company factors other than the product in question, except for the KHG (border, distributor).

Look forward to reading more decisions that people have taken.
 

siggy

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leepink23

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Not sure about the water sample size, it's small. But you can dump it back in the sump so it doesnot matter.
Test every 4 hours. For the last 2 years it's been very accurate no complaints. I cross check it with salifert kit once a month just incase. It transfer the results to apex with great accuracy...I think the most I have seen diffrence is 0.01 delta. It let you calibrate your AIM module so data transferred to your controller are accurate.
It test minimum every 4 hours or you have yours set every 4 hours?
 
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Everyone is going to place different values to each unit. While I have not purchased my choice yet, I'll go through the methodology that lead to my decision as I have finalised it (just tying up some other loose ends before ordering). Keep in mind I am not in the US (Canada), so pricing is higher over-all, and with some things much higher right now.

Cost is a factor, but I am ignoring up-front costs as this hobby isn't one of short term buys. Total cost of ownership after a year plus is my baseline, and all the units, sans the KHG are close enough in overall cost after purchase / operation for said year to me that it's a wash. With that out of the way, I then looked at how they operate. I am after testing dKH for daily monitoring, and initially want to test it about 8x a day while I get things dialled in, rolling that back to 2x a day once it is. That excludes one solution right off the bat, leaving three.

Next was testing methodology, the remaining three all use PH based testing with an acid based reagent, and all should have similar reagent costs within a few cents. Test sample volumes don’t affect my choice as my tanks are on AWC, and can simply reduce the amount per day removed by awc to compensate for the amount removed from alk testing. Or apparently the reagent / sample mixture can be returned to the tank, if indeed it is simply an acid the only impact should be a ph / alkalinity drop in that ~50-100ml of water. That’s a specific use case decision, as I have noted, these testers are a full of specific use case reasoning.

Then it comes to company. I am not willing to entertain the KHG simply because the sole point of support for me, North of the border would be the distributor. Perhaps there would be no issue, but history has taught me otherwise with ‘niche’ hardware releases handled by a second party and having the border involved, should something go south. It ultimately came down to the KHD or Alkatronic. Build quality seems similar, at least to the point it was not the deciding factor. Maintenance costs will both include the PH probe at some point, and since the KH D relies on a 2.1 doser, it seems parts are a bit more readily available should I require servicing a pump or the head cap. They both have a good release history that has had issues but all current owners I've talked to are happy with their purchase, most stating every issue brought up has been addressed be it hardware or software.

So with both remaining options quite similar and given I am changing ecosystems it made sense to go with the KH Director. If I was remaining with the controller ecosystem I have now, the decision would have been Alkatronic since it can report via BNC back to an Apex using a “dKH” PH tile.

I think that's as neutral as you can get from someone that is still on the dKH monitoring side-lines, has rather extensively examined all the major market options at this point in time and is excluding all other company factors other than the product in question, except for the KHG (border, distributor).

Look forward to reading more decisions that people have taken.
Great perspective! Thanks for sharing!
 

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It test minimum every 4 hours or you have yours set every 4 hours?
The min you can set is to test every 240min. If I want to test less frequent I connect it to a timer or a controlled outlet where I turn it on and off ad I like to test.
But honestly I stopped doing that because, testing every 4 hours the reagent last for 2 months...so it's been good enough for me.
 

road_runner

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Everyone is going to place different values to each unit. While I have not purchased my choice yet, I'll go through the methodology that lead to my decision as I have finalised it (just tying up some other loose ends before ordering). Keep in mind I am not in the US (Canada), so pricing is higher over-all, and with some things much higher right now.

Cost is a factor, but I am ignoring up-front costs as this hobby isn't one of short term buys. Total cost of ownership after a year plus is my baseline, and all the units, sans the KHG are close enough in overall cost after purchase / operation for said year to me that it's a wash. With that out of the way, I then looked at how they operate. I am after testing dKH for daily monitoring, and initially want to test it about 8x a day while I get things dialled in, rolling that back to 2x a day once it is. That excludes one solution right off the bat, leaving three.

Next was testing methodology, the remaining three all use PH based testing with an acid based reagent, and all should have similar reagent costs within a few cents. Test sample volumes don’t affect my choice as my tanks are on AWC, and can simply reduce the amount per day removed by awc to compensate for the amount removed from alk testing. Or apparently the reagent / sample mixture can be returned to the tank, if indeed it is simply an acid the only impact should be a ph / alkalinity drop in that ~50-100ml of water. That’s a specific use case decision, as I have noted, these testers are a full of specific use case reasoning.

Then it comes to company. I am not willing to entertain the KHG simply because the sole point of support for me, North of the border would be the distributor. Perhaps there would be no issue, but history has taught me otherwise with ‘niche’ hardware releases handled by a second party and having the border involved, should something go south. It ultimately came down to the KHD or Alkatronic. Build quality seems similar, at least to the point it was not the deciding factor. Maintenance costs will both include the PH probe at some point, and since the KH D relies on a 2.1 doser, it seems parts are a bit more readily available should I require servicing a pump or the head cap. They both have a good release history that has had issues but all current owners I've talked to are happy with their purchase, most stating every issue brought up has been addressed be it hardware or software.

So with both remaining options quite similar and given I am changing ecosystems it made sense to go with the KH Director. If I was remaining with the controller ecosystem I have now, the decision would have been Alkatronic since it can report via BNC back to an Apex using a “dKH” PH tile.

I think that's as neutral as you can get from someone that is still on the dKH monitoring side-lines, has rather extensively examined all the major market options at this point in time and is excluding all other company factors other than the product in question, except for the KHG (border, distributor).

Look forward to reading more decisions that people have taken.
Great perspective.
And to your point these testers are not the only way to run successful reefs. There is no harm of waiting..

Just a small counter perspective on the vendor location part...

Taking me as an example: while some have been waiting for 2 years on Neptune trident where up to now it is still not clear how reliable it is, I have been using my khg for more than 2 years, enjoyed having it control my dkh on both display and frag tanks, my reef thrived and never had problem with the support from the khg vendor.

There is a risk in any vendor, the way I see it, all these vendors are small private companies and operations...regardless of the name. I think they all carry similar risk factors.

I found more comfort in the fact that khg is built by someone who their sole purpose is test equipment compared to someone who add test just to add a product to their line up...especially when they have quality issues in some of their existing line up...am talking about Neptune here.

As for khd, I truly think it's one of the best options in the market, I just cannot justify the cost diffrence compared to khg..thats all.
 

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I think that's as neutral as you can get from someone that is still on the dKH monitoring side-lines, has rather extensively examined all the major market options at this point in time and is excluding all other company factors other than the product in question, except for the KHG (border, distributor).
Same boat myself. Even if you ignore having to deal with Coralvue in the states, the cost of shipping reagents is nearly as much as the things cost (26$ shipping on 35$ worth of reagents). /grumble

I am personally waiting till the ION director comes out this fall before deciding. Going KHD, and most likely move everything to GHL, is kind of a scary amount of money ..
 

road_runner

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Same boat myself. Even if you ignore having to deal with Coralvue in the states, the cost of shipping reagents is nearly as much as the things cost (26$ shipping on 35$ worth of reagents). /grumble

I am personally waiting till the ION director comes out this fall before deciding. Going KHD, and most likely move everything to GHL, is kind of a scary amount of money ..
Btw khd is stand alone. You do not have to move everything to ghl yo have khd...just fyi.
 

mitch91175

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I'm in the same boat as the OP, though I'm not in a big hurry. The difference in my case is that I really want something that is compatible with any controller (Reef Angel in my case), and by compatible, I really mean that the controller can get the test readings even if only used for display and logging. Obviously that rules out the Trident, but even though the KH Director lacks the compatibility, I keep it in the running because it will work standalone (with a GHL doser), and if I ever wanted to switch controllers, the KH Director would either work seamlessly with a GHL controller or would work standalone with an Apex. That said, the KH Director is in a distant 3rd right now for that reason.

I would like to see a real "Pros and Cons" comparative list for each. All I've been able to find are promos, which only tell one side of the story (e.g. no promo says, "This product was designed and is supported by one guy, and if he goes away, you're screwed," or "You are going to lose 1/2 liter of saltwater per day so your weekly salinity drop will be however much a system your size is affected by replacing a gal of saltwater with a gal of RO every week." Even the good points are stated in different ways and some stuff is downright subjective, "The xx is so loud, I have flashbacks to the AC/DC concerts I attended in the 80's," or, "You can barely hear the xx with a stethoscope."

Obviously all of these units have good and bad points, but it is hard to wrap one's hands around what might work best for one's particular situation.


Hey @Crashjack I bet you didn't see my thread about the Alkatronic and the noise did you? Oh I let them have it bro. The noise is still an issue for me, but I do not think there is anything that can be done to my V1 unit to make it as silent as the newer V3 units.

Here are 2 threads that were started discussing the Alktronic and CaRx:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-honest-opinion-about-the-alkatronic.372934/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/geo-818-smc415-calcium-reactor-setup-for-my-240-reef.463228/

Now to the good part (I guess :D). I will say this first though, mostly everyone will say that the unit that they are currently using is the best unit available. If you had to ask me, I put them in this order:

1. Trident (solely because of being able to measure calcium/magnesium, but that is a totally different topic of discussion)
2. Alkatronic
3. KH Director
4. KH Guardian

Please keep in mind that this ranking above doesn't take into account anything related to total operational cost of the units and it is just my opinion, but if it were based upon dKH measurements alone, the Alkatronic is the all around winner. The reason I say it win on both is because:

Alkatronic Pros
1. You can do your own maintenance
2. You can test 24 times a day without any issue whatsoever
3. You can add the reagent back to your tank
4. You can buy the reagent in bulk and it'll last you over 14 months test every 6 hours (would last longer I'd imagine if you run into no re-test)
5. You can get notifications and see your historical measurements. I do not trust the info being sent to the Apex so them having their own web interface is great
6. Parts can be sourced outside of Alkatronic

Now here are the cons for the Alkatronic:
1. Older models are not quiet
2. Support to me is fine, but no where near the capacity of for instance Neptune Systems
3. Can be a little glitchy at times (nothing frequent on my end just stuff that I have read but you also have to consider the end-user error in any instance for any product)
4. Monthly pump calibration (just par for the course but listed anyways)

Hope that contributes.

Now, I have been using the Alkatronic for over 12 months. Throughout that time it has helped me tremendously with my system. The key word is "helped". I will say that no matter what unit you have, you CANNOT just hand over the keys to the kingdom and think that everything will be alright as long as your tester is maintaining your dKH/calcium/magnesium. There are still so many other things to do with your tank (even testing the "big 3" from time to time). I will say that having something that at a minimum measures dKH will be highly beneficial to any reefer. There is no way in this world I would have my system hooked up like it is currently WITHOUT something to measure dKH. Heck I am dosing 1260ml saturated kalk daily on top of running my calcium reactor and even then the Alkatronic still doses every once in a while when my tank is going through some growth spurts.

I have used a calcium reactor for 20+ years or anything like that just for the past year. Within that time, I do not see how you can just set your calcium reactor and no supplement it with something else (either kalk or 2-part) and maintain the dKH within a certain range during the crazy growth periods that coral go through. Specially when you are driving your pH higher and they are consuming more dKH at certain periods of the day. I keep an eye on my graphs for certain times during the day if my Alkatronic does dose around the same time and instead of messing with my CaRx, I adjust my kalk dosage at that particular time. This is where the Alkatronic shines in my situation. I was testing every hour while getting the kalk stirrer setup. It allowed me to adjust things where I wanted them. I still monitor it and will adjust if necessary.

If you add the Dosetronic to this mix, it'll do these things for me, but I am not that freaking lazy to observe a graph and make the adjustments from there. Maybe one day, but not now. Also doing this helps me stay in tune with what is going on in the tank.
 

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Been rocking alkatronic quite a while now and have been pleased. If I had to pick again I would stick with the alkatronic. The other threads linked get into more discussion so don't need to repost it all.
 
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Been rocking alkatronic quite a while now and have been pleased. If I had to pick again I would stick with the alkatronic. The other threads linked get into more discussion so don't need to repost it all.
Is there a minimum amount of tests it has to do? Also can you set the times of the test?
 

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My advice is that if you think you might want the Trident, to wait until more information is out before making a decision.

This is in their FAQ's.
upload_2019-5-28_9-18-28.png


If you are sure you are ok with doing this maintenance yourself, then the cost is pretty obvious. I feel like I would do it myself, but I haven't seen any information released showing how difficult it would be. Lots more questions if you think you need them to do it for you. Does that $150-$200 include shipping? How fast is the turn around time? How will the advanced replacement option work?

I don't think any of these are deal breakers, but it is something to consider and could easily add $10/month to the operating cost. If I were in the market for one, I would want answers first. I suspect at least some new owners are going to be in for a shock when they have to send it out the first time. I have a feeling this was missed by many people in the excitement of the launch.

One thing I like about the GHL product is the ease of doing the maintenance yourself. Replacing the dosing heads used to operate the KHD is easy. Calibrating the dosing heads and pH probe is also easy. If a new head is needed it is around $7 and the pH probe (which will likely need to be replaced every 3 to 5 years) is around $70.
 
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My advice is that if you think you might want the Trident, to wait until more information is out before making a decision.

This is in their FAQ's.
upload_2019-5-28_9-18-28.png


If you are sure you are ok with doing this maintenance yourself, then the cost is pretty obvious. I feel like I would do it myself, but I haven't seen any information released showing how difficult it would be. Lots more questions if you think you need them to do it for you. Does that $150-$200 include shipping? How fast is the turn around time? How will the advanced replacement option work?

I don't think any of these are deal breakers, but it is something to consider and could easily add $10/month to the operating cost. If I were in the market for one, I would want answers first. I suspect at least some new owners are going to be in for a shock when they have to send it out the first time. I have a feeling this was missed by many people in the excitement of the launch.

One thing I like about the GHL product is the ease of doing the maintenance yourself. Replacing the dosing heads used to operate the KHD is easy. Calibrating the dosing heads and pH probe is also easy. If a new head is needed it is around $7 and the pH probe (which will likely need to be replaced every 3 to 5 years) is around $70.
The khd is also very interesting to me considering the ion Director future release, I have went back and forth on this in a consideration to completely switch to ghl. I am waiting to see when the director sa will track results like the Profilux because I may start with just the director. How loud is the unit?
 

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How is the KH guardian if you don’t have a controller?

There doesn’t seem to be an app or anything to connect to it. How do you keep track of it’s results without a 3rd party controller?
 

ihavecrabs

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How is the KH guardian if you don’t have a controller?

There doesn’t seem to be an app or anything to connect to it. How do you keep track of it’s results without a 3rd party controller?
I think you have to open ports to allow connectivity outside of your wifi to access the web app. Never tried it since I have mine hooked up to the apex.
 

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