Trouble starting bean animal overflow

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I've been using it for about 6 months and it's been an absolute nightmare. I much preferred my simple not so safe single full siphon overflow I used to have.

There's been tons of problems before I got it working properly. Currently I have one left: I can't ''start'' the overflow without having to play with the main valve a bit. Whenever I turn the return pump back on, all I get is a pathetic bit of water and mostly air going through the main drain. Then the secondary drain comes into play, which flushes the entire overflow chamber. This process keeps repeating itself without my interference.

I have both the primary and secondary drain coming into the sump area about 2'' below surface. The downward facing elbow inlets are about 4'' in height apart from each other. Drilled a small hole in the secondary drain and fitted a piece of airline tubing. When everything's tuned properly it just works without problems. Completely silent. It's just starting it back up without opening and closing the valve is simply impossible.

Any ideas what's going on here? See video below what happens when I turn the return pump back on. I have the main drain above the surface here, just to see if that would've made a difference.
 

Big Smelly fish

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Does it settle down after a few minutes and stat working correct , It looks like it's starting the siphon over again and purging the air before it settle . Post a photo of the actual bean setup. Is your main drain elbow reaching far enough down into the overflow box.
 

MnFish1

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I've been using it for about 6 months and it's been an absolute nightmare. I much preferred my simple not so safe single full siphon overflow I used to have.

There's been tons of problems before I got it working properly. Currently I have one left: I can't ''start'' the overflow without having to play with the main valve a bit. Whenever I turn the return pump back on, all I get is a pathetic bit of water and mostly air going through the main drain. Then the secondary drain comes into play, which flushes the entire overflow chamber. This process keeps repeating itself without my interference.

I have both the primary and secondary drain coming into the sump area about 2'' below surface. The downward facing elbow inlets are about 4'' in height apart from each other. Drilled a small hole in the secondary drain and fitted a piece of airline tubing. When everything's tuned properly it just works without problems. Completely silent. It's just starting it back up without opening and closing the valve is simply impossible.

Any ideas what's going on here? See video below what happens when I turn the return pump back on. I have the main drain above the surface here, just to see if that would've made a difference.

I'm notoriously bad at interpreting videos without seeing the whole 'system' (i.e. the drain as well) - and how you can adjust the flow. BUT - I had the same problem on a similar system - where I would have to constantly adjust the valve on a Red Sea system (I'm not sure thats exactly what you have) - but the solution was to take the valve piece off and clean it - there was just enough 'stuff' inside it - that when the flow stopped for some reason things settled and blocked it more than it was when there was constant flow.

The other thing is to completely open the valve and then entirely close it. Then completely re-open it - and slowly make very small adjustments until its silent. Sometimes just completely re-doing the valve setting solves this problem.

Lastly - if too much water is going 'out' of your tank into the sump when the pump is off - it will take longer (sorry if this sounds obvious) - until water reaches the surface - depending on how high your main drain is compared to the secondary one.

Really lastly - have you checked your plumbing to make sure its not very clogged? which is actually more common than one woudl think.
 
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My overflow area is hard to acces and even harder to take a picture of, will this drawing help in any way? The main drain is just a bit lower than in this drawing.
1.png


I haven't tried waiting a few mins yet! Got agitated enough to interfere after it flushed 3 times. When I'm ready to get annoyed again I'll wait a bit a longer :)
I'm notoriously bad at interpreting videos without seeing the whole 'system' (i.e. the drain as well) - and how you can adjust the flow. BUT - I had the same problem on a similar system - where I would have to constantly adjust the valve on a Red Sea system (I'm not sure thats exactly what you have) - but the solution was to take the valve piece off and clean it - there was just enough 'stuff' inside it - that when the flow stopped for some reason things settled and blocked it more than it was when there was constant flow.

The other thing is to completely open the valve and then entirely close it. Then completely re-open it - and slowly make very small adjustments until its silent. Sometimes just completely re-doing the valve setting solves this problem.

Lastly - if too much water is going 'out' of your tank into the sump when the pump is off - it will take longer (sorry if this sounds obvious) - until water reaches the surface - depending on how high your main drain is compared to the secondary one.

Really lastly - have you checked your plumbing to make sure its not very clogged? which is actually more common than one woudl think.
I don't have any problems with it when it runs fortunately. Just starting it up is a disaster every time. I'll see if they're clogged. Right after the weir is a bunch of filter sponges to reduce the noise from water falling in. The sponges catch a ton of detritus.
 

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My overflow area is hard to acces and even harder to take a picture of, will this drawing help in any way? The main drain is just a bit lower than in this drawing.
1.png


I haven't tried waiting a few mins yet! Got agitated enough to interfere after it flushed 3 times. When I'm ready to get annoyed again I'll wait a bit a longer :)

I don't have any problems with it when it runs fortunately. Just starting it up is a disaster every time. I'll see if they're clogged. Right after the weir is a bunch of filter sponges to reduce the noise from water falling in. The sponges catch a ton of detritus.
Where is the water level in your tank?
 

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Your picture explains why your main drain wont work.
The hook on the top and the bottom being submerged means the air is trapped in it with very little force to push it out.
Try running nothing on your main drain in the box. Just an open bulkhead. It will work fine then.
 

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Your picture explains why your main drain wont work.
The hook on the top and the bottom being submerged means the air is trapped in it with very little force to push it out.
Try running nothing on your main drain in the box. Just an open bulkhead. It will work fine then.
That would defeat the whole purpose of the bean when a properly set up bean overflow. Once the siphon starts it clear the air out.
 

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Is the main drain picking up water at a lower point in the overflow then the secondary. it should be, also the main should be as near to the bottom of the overflow box that will still allow good flow.
 

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That would defeat the whole purpose of the bean when a properly set up bean overflow. Once the siphon starts it clear the air out.
Actually - I think @WVNed may be correct. What should happen is (without the hook on the main drain) - when you turn off the return pump - water obviously drains into the sump - to the level of the top of the main drain. When you turn the return pump back on - the water level rises back to the level of the main drain - and flows down. The way your picture shows - once the water level is down to the bottom of the 'hook' on the main drain, water could drain out of the top of the hook leaving an 'air pocket' - the reason you need to mess with the valve - is because once you create more flow, the extra air can be 'sucked down'. That is the only possible way I could see it.
 

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The elbow can differently trap some air in the drain pipe, but should if set up correct purge it out shortly after start up and function perfectly. The drains going into the sump should be just below the surface, two far down can also cause more resistance making hard for the air to purge,
I can see what WVned stated , no chance of air being suck in drain and by adjusting the valve you could slow down the flow as to not emptying the overflow box and creating noise and suction sound.
 

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See if this video helps you out.
 
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Is the main drain picking up water at a lower point in the overflow then the secondary. it should be, also the main should be as near to the bottom of the overflow box that will still allow good flow.
Yes, the main drain picks up water before the secondary. I intentionally haven't placed the main drain near the bottom. That would either mean the sump would overflow incase the return pump would stop working (I have a ~10 gallon overflow and a sump that has room for about 15) or I'd have a waterfall inside my overflow. Neither of those options make me very happy.

I've just turned the pump off and on again. Waited a bit longer this time and after the fourth flush it did sorta start again. However, there seems to be air trapped inside the main drain. At one point no water was coming through the main drain at all. Only after opening the valve completely, tons of huge air bubbles came out and water started flowing through again.

Since I can't lower my main drain more than it currently is, would @WVNed 's solution work? Except I would just remove the elbow in that case. Removing the entire standpipe again isn't an option, because I use only 1 piece of pvc tubing on both side of the overflow.
 

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I can understand the need to not overflow your sump. You could give it a try, My only thought is the water will rise up to the main standpipe and create a swirling gurgling sound and secondary will also be draining more then it should. Give it a try, cant hurt so long as you monitor it and check shutoff and restart.
 

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Yes, the main drain picks up water before the secondary. I intentionally haven't placed the main drain near the bottom. That would either mean the sump would overflow incase the return pump would stop working (I have a ~10 gallon overflow and a sump that has room for about 15) or I'd have a waterfall inside my overflow. Neither of those options make me very happy.

I've just turned the pump off and on again. Waited a bit longer this time and after the fourth flush it did sorta start again. However, there seems to be air trapped inside the main drain. At one point no water was coming through the main drain at all. Only after opening the valve completely, tons of huge air bubbles came out and water started flowing through again.

Since I can't lower my main drain more than it currently is, would @WVNed 's solution work? Except I would just remove the elbow in that case. Removing the entire standpipe again isn't an option, because I use only 1 piece of pvc tubing on both side of the overflow.
I have seen many bean animal 'designs' - that have no 'hook at all on the main drain - merely a flat opening. As @WVNed said - that will solve the problem - though you may need to adjust the height
 

MnFish1

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Will give it a try, thanks for the help :)
to avoid overflowing the sump - you could decrease the total volume in the system - if you have 'extra volume'. Since thats not likely - I would not move your drain down - I would remove the hook and adjust the valve.
 
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to avoid overflowing the sump - you could decrease the total volume in the system - if you have 'extra volume'. Since thats not likely - I would not move your drain down - I would remove the hook and adjust the valve.
The only way to stop my sump from overflowing - if I were to shorten the main standpipe - is by lowering the water level in my overflow. The problem with that however, is that I'll have a ton of noise from water dropping down over the weir.

I could probably get away with shortening the main pipe by about 2''. I think there's more room to increase the secondary's drain pipe. We'll see what happens when I remove the elbows :)
 
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Such an easy fix but so effective! Took the elbows off and it starts right away! Only needed minor tweaking. I don't have to deal with my ATO turning on before the water level in my sump has stabilized either now :)

Again thanks a lot for the suggestions! This was my only major concern left in case there'd be a power outage with me being away from home. Now I know everything will properly restart itself. Plus spot feeding corals has gotten so so much easier now lol.
 

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