UPS battery backup?

[laverda]

It is not debatable that a pump running at 5 watts will last longer than one running at 10 watts. However, the ecotech backup will automatically change the power setting of the pump to run slower. A UPS will not. It's a very valid test of what would happen if the power was lost and you were not there or didn't know about it.

Unless you have a massive battery system, you really shouldn't count on an automatic battery backup for any other equipment. If you're able to maintain your tank in a power outage, a generator or other more manual options is going to be a lot better than putting a heater or most other equpiment on a UPC.

The whole point is I don't want my pumps running at a lower rate! In a power outage, I especially want the surface agitation for oxygen exchange. Without oxygen exchange the flow is not nearly as helpful. At 25 percent there would be not be any significant oxygen exchange.
I agree a generator is really needed to run heaters long term and a battery or UPS is a poor solution for them.

 

[laverda]

Good to know! I'm brand new to saltwater so thank you, the only reason I'm bringing up the 25% with the apex is to have a more fair comparison as someone pointed out. @Ratherbeflyen and the BRS video sums it up well I think

For my 300 gallon tank running my pumps at 25% would be pretty much all but useless! Only a small portion of the tank would get any flow. It might be ok for your tank. I would test it and see. Also you need to check it every 6 months and replace the battery every few years.
A lot of people thought they had a back up in place only to find their battery was dead. The lack of a battery health indicator on the battery packs is a big design flaw! My UPS tells me how long my batteries will last based on the power I am using. My Tunzes will run 12.4 hours at their current setting if my goes out now with out me doing a thing. Not at 25%!

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

Fair enough. I personally would rather have a pump that ran @ 1/2 or 1/4 speed for 4 days than one that would run @ full speed for 1 day then have no circulation for the remaining 3 days. I personally would never use any backup that at a minimum lasted longer than the night or the time away at work, ~12 hours. I also want to be able to go out of town for the weekend and have some basic life support for the entire time. Others will have a different need and opinion that I think is just fine. If you have an automatic power loss alert and know you can provide more attention in a couple hours then a few hours of battery backup should be adequate.

On my 220 gallon tank I run a single Icecap gyre @ 50% speed on 14 amp hours of batteries for ~100 hours of run time in wave mode. It agitates the surface and moves water in the entire tank. Granted at a much less volume/rate than when at full grid power. I've never lost any fish or coral when the power was lost. The battery backup limps along basic life support until I can provide more attention. Hopefully it's sooner than later.

A UPS inverts a DC battery to AC, just for a power adapter to convert it back to DC. There is power loss in both of those steps. So running a DC pump directly from DC batteries, at any power setting, will get you significantly longer run time than any UPS possibly can with the same size battery, as detailed in both videos.

One thing I think we can all agree on is anything that automatically moves water when the power is lost is better than nothing or something you manually have to activate.

 

[laverda]

I actually have multiple UPSs. I have modified my others so they have a 12volt DC socket wired directly to the battery. This provides much longer battery life like you said as there is no conversion to AC and back. I have not modified my main one as it is under warranty still. But will be doing so shortly. It will have 2 24volt DC ports. That should make a huge difference in my battery run time.
Luckily 7 hours has been the longest power outage we have had here in 20 years or so. I do have a generator, power inverters and several battery powered air pumps as well. I am thinking of setting up a 24 volt solar system just for the tank.

 

[Ratherbeflyen]

Unless you got one for free, I would offer that if you're going to modify a UPS anyway, you might as well just get an 8 pin relay, batteries and charger of your choice for less money than a UPS. Which is exactly what I did and recommend, if you're willing to take on a project like that.

 

[laverda]

I had and have several extras that were used for computers that just needed new batteries. The APC 1500s I bought new. I was able to get one for a steal of a price. I thought it was a scam the price was so good. I almost did not buy it, but since it was on Amazon I figured I was protected.

 

[Malcontent]

The whole point is I don't want my pumps running at a lower rate! In a power outage, I especially want the surface agitation for oxygen exchange. Without oxygen exchange the flow is not nearly as helpful. At 25 percent there would be not be any significant oxygen exchange.
I agree a generator is really needed to run heaters long term and a battery or UPS is a poor solution for them.

Surface agitation isn't very effective at oxygenation despite what everyone says. Aeration is 55-70% of operating costs in wastewater treatment plants and they all switched from surface to bubble aeration decades ago.

My Tetra AP150 air pump and Current eFlux 2100 gph wavemaker achieved similar dissolved oxygen levels but the latter drew 7 times more power.

A UPS inverts a DC battery to AC, just for a power adapter to convert it back to DC. There is power loss in both of those steps. So running a DC pump directly from DC batteries, at any power setting, will get you significantly longer run time than any UPS possibly can with the same size battery, as detailed in both videos.

Interestingly, there are affordable DC UPSes. No idea how well they work though.

Amazon.com : DC UPS

 

[laverda]

Surface agitation isn't very effective at oxygenation despite what everyone says. Aeration is 55-70% of operating costs in wastewater treatment plants and they all switched from surface to bubble aeration decades ago.

My Tetra AP150 air pump and Current eFlux 2100 gph wavemaker achieved similar dissolved oxygen levels but the latter drew 7 times more power.



Interestingly, there are affordable DC UPSes. No idea how well they work though.

Amazon.com : DC UPS

I will not argue that but in a power outage, most people have nothing providing oxygen exchange. I have 5 battery powered air pumps as well. 2 come on automatically in a power outage and the air come out below my flow pumps. So I think I am pretty well covered.
If Texas conditions happened I would not worry for 3 days. After that who knows!

 

[MartinM]

I don't want them running at a lower rate personally. I especially want the surface agitation for oxygen exchange in a power outage. Without oxygen exchange the flow is not nearly as helpful. At 25 percent there would not be enough oxygen exchange.
I will never rely on an apex to control my pumps anyway. Way to unreliable for me!

Good point. Always have a lump that can keep your system alive that is t controlled by anything that could fail!

 

[Vested]

I will not argue that but in a power outage, most people have nothing providing oxygen exchange. I have 5 battery powered air pumps as well. 2 come on automatically in a power outage and the air come out below my flow pumps. So I think I am pretty well covered.
If Texas conditions happened I would not worry for 3 days. After that who knows!

Curious about how you setup air pumps that come on only when the power goes out, id defiantly be interested in setting something like that up

 

[laverda]

Curious about how you setup air pumps that come on only when the power goes out, id defiantly be interested in setting something like that up

There are a few on the market. Marine depot sells these. Rescue air battery powered air pump. They carry a few different rescue air pumps, but this is the one I have. I have it sitting next to and above my tank with the flexible air line connected to a length of ridge air line to close to the bottom of my tank. It is below a battery backed up Tunze so the bubbles get broken and mixed well. The pump comes on automatically when the power goes out but stays on when the power comes back on which is a bit annoying. This particular version comes with an additional battery pack. Pretty much the same as a cellphone back up battery. Which could also be used if you have one. It uses a standard USB cable. In a long power outage the battery pack could be recharged in a car or by a small solar charger. Mine has come on a few times, however the outages were short enough I don't know how long it would last really. I do not use air stones as they require more power to force air through them, are restrictive and my tank is 30" deep. Also they tend to get clogged up over time, especially if Coralie algae starts growing on them.
I have 2 other older larger ones, one uses 4 D cell batteries. The second one uses a small sealed battery like in UPSs. If I recall it will also take D cells. This reminds me, I actually need to get a new battery for this one.
While not automatic these work amazingly well for the money! Battery powered air pump. I have these in a cabinet next to my tank just in case I need them. I have air line attached to them already, hooked up the same way. Also handy when transporting fish or for a small frag tank at an event where power may be limited.
I have seen at least one more larger one available for sale in the past.

 

[Vested]

There are a few on the market. Marine depot sells these. Rescue air battery powered air pump. They carry a few different rescue air pumps, but this is the one I have. I have it sitting next to and above my tank with the flexible air line connected to a length of ridge air line to close to the bottom of my tank. It is below a battery backed up Tunze so the bubbles get broken and mixed well. The pump comes on automatically when the power goes out but stays on when the power comes back on which is a bit annoying. This particular version comes with an additional battery pack. Pretty much the same as a cellphone back up battery. Which could also be used if you have one. It uses a standard USB cable. In a long power outage the battery pack could be recharged in a car or by a small solar charger. Mine has come on a few times, however the outages were short enough I don't know how long it would last really. I do not use air stones as they require more power to force air through them, are restrictive and my tank is 30" deep. Also they tend to get clogged up over time, especially if Coralie algae starts growing on them.
I have 2 other older larger ones, one uses 4 D cell batteries. The second one uses a small sealed battery like in UPSs. If I recall it will also take D cells. This reminds me, I actually need to get a new battery for this one.
While not automatic these work amazingly well for the money! Battery powered air pump. I have these in a cabinet next to my tank just in case I need them. I have air line attached to them already, hooked up the same way. Also handy when transporting fish or for a small frag tank at an event where power may be limited.
I have seen at least one more larger one available for sale in the past.

Ill defiantly get some of the cheap battery powered pumps, and thank you for the recommendation on the other one will have to look into options for the automatic ones.

 

[laverda]

Ill defiantly get some of the cheap battery powered pumps, and thank you for the recommendation on the other one will have to look into options for the automatic ones.

Glad to help. One of the larger ones was made be Azoo. The D cell powered on by Hailea.

 

[gdw]

I was thinking about a small ups unit , with an inverter for 100w, but remove its battery and replace it with a much larger batery.
Now I am to run both lights and circulation pumps 45 by red sea and they do have an app that informs me of a power outage. SO: if I get a power outage, i have my pumps on the ups, and as soon as the app lets me know , I just reduce the power consumption of the 2 pumps... and get the same result as the one given on the test, low inverter consumption, long time. Even longer because of the battery size.

Any thoughts? I doubt I am a pioneer in such a thing.....

(I am also thinking of getting a generator in case the outage lasts more than a few hours.... but this has never happened in Athens Greece)

 

[attiland]

Looking into battery backup options lately, currently leaning towards a UPS specifically the CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD does anyone know how long 1500VA/900W will keep a single mp40 or an mp10 running? Are their better options I should look into? Trying to avoid any serious DIY with batteries/electronics.

Ups is not designed for motors. You loose a lot converting power to high voltage and back. Unless you know what you do and can hack them to use 24V straight from it’s battery you will only have a couple of hours coverage. Cyber power is not a bad ups, its okay but in the lower end.
use battery backup designed for the job.

 

[Vested]

I was thinking about a small ups unit , with an inverter for 100w, but remove its battery and replace it with a much larger batery.
Now I am to run both lights and circulation pumps 45 by red sea and they do have an app that informs me of a power outage. SO: if I get a power outage, i have my pumps on the ups, and as soon as the app lets me know , I just reduce the power consumption of the 2 pumps... and get the same result as the one given on the test, low inverter consumption, long time. Even longer because of the battery size.

Any thoughts? I doubt I am a pioneer in such a thing.....

(I am also thinking of getting a generator in case the outage lasts more than a few hours.... but this has never happened in Athens Greece)

I think you can probably find an inverter for this instead of messing with a UPS, I assume it would be safer as well. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/power-outage check the power inverter section out. Goodluck!

 

[attiland]

I was thinking about a small ups unit , with an inverter for 100w, but remove its battery and replace it with a much larger batery.
Now I am to run both lights and circulation pumps 45 by red sea and they do have an app that informs me of a power outage. SO: if I get a power outage, i have my pumps on the ups, and as soon as the app lets me know , I just reduce the power consumption of the 2 pumps... and get the same result as the one given on the test, low inverter consumption, long time. Even longer because of the battery size.

Any thoughts? I doubt I am a pioneer in such a thing.....

(I am also thinking of getting a generator in case the outage lasts more than a few hours.... but this has never happened in Athens Greece)

Check how much power it uses for charge the battery as you can blow the circuit if it drow too much current.
If you have options for generator that is the way to go