What is wrong with my CBB's gill?!?

[Biff0rz]

His fin is red? Ok.

No, it's brown in the light, showed red in the photo. Both fins have that and have had it for a long while.

 

[Biff0rz]

I just got done w a dip. 5m. Didn't see it or anything fall off of him. He's back in the tank readjusting.

He laid on his side the whole time and was stunned. Breathing pace remained the same.

 

[bruno3047]

I just got done w a dip. 5m. Didn't see it or anything fall off of him. He's back in the tank readjusting.

He laid on his side the whole time and was stunned. Breathing pace remained the same.

When you do a freshwater bath you should never let the fish lay on his side. Get something and touch his tail to get him upright and swimming. This is a very delicate species and if you allow him to, he will go into shock. Keep him moving for the duration of the bath to prevent that. If you can’t keep him moving, it’s time to end the bath. I’m not there to see what you see on your fish, so I can’t comment any further on that.

 

[rmorris_14]

I just got done w a dip. 5m. Didn't see it or anything fall off of him. He's back in the tank readjusting.

He laid on his side the whole time and was stunned. Breathing pace remained the same.

If you end up doing a freshwater dip again. I THINK it’s best to have an air stone running and then gently chase them around to encourage them to swim which dislodges potential parasites. Double check that with @Jay Hemdal though.

 

[Biff0rz]

When you do a freshwater bath you should never let the fish lay on his side. Get something and touch his tail to get him upright and swimming. This is a very delicate species and if you allow him to, he will go into shock. Keep him moving for the duration of the bath to prevent that. If you can’t keep him moving, it’s time to end the bath. I’m not there to see what you see on your fish, so I can’t comment any further on that.

Welp, too late for that! He's back in the tank seemingly fine now.

 

[Biff0rz]

If you end up doing a freshwater dip again. I THINK it’s best to have an air stone running and then gently chase them around to encourage them to swim which dislodges potential parasites. Double check that with @Jay Hemdal though.

I had an air stone in it prior to placing him in it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If you end up doing a freshwater dip again. I THINK it’s best to have an air stone running and then gently chase them around to encourage them to swim which dislodges potential parasites. Double check that with @Jay Hemdal though.

I agree - I missed saying that. I always move fish around in a dip towards the end....if you don't do that, sometimes the parasites remain attached.

Jay

 

[Biff0rz]

I agree - I missed saying that. I always move fish around in a dip towards the end....if you don't do that, sometimes the parasites remain attached.

Jay

I did get him up and move him at the end, I didn't just scoop him up but it wasn't a long time. When can I do another dip? 2 days? I don't think this thing will come off tbh. He was in for a full 5m

 

[vetteguy53081]

Will a fw dip cause it to fall off?

Sorry for delay- Had a zoom meeting
It may or may not but my belief is it would. Another method I know of and had to confirm. . . . . The picture below is a picture of a parasitic isopod called a fish gill isopod Linoneca ovalis which is often found in the gills of fish and they cling to the gill filaments of their host with horrible looking hooked legs. They feed on the gill tissue not the blood of the host fish and it is not uncommon for them to leave one fish and free swim until they find another fish to cling to ( a black molly would be a good sacrifice). They live in high salinity waters so it would confirm they dont do well in low salinity water - Freshwater being the case.

Sorta looks like what is in your photo

 

[Biff0rz]

Sorry for delay- Had a zoom meeting
It may or may not but my belief is it would. Another method I know of and had to confirm. . . . . The picture below is a picture of a parasitic isopod called a fish gill isopod Linoneca ovalis which is often found in the gills of fish and they cling to the gill filaments of their host with horrible looking hooked legs. They feed on the gill tissue not the blood of the host fish and it is not uncommon for them to leave one fish and free swim until they find another fish to cling to ( a black molly would be a good sacrifice). They live in high salinity waters so it would confirm they dont do well in low salinity water - Freshwater being the case.

Sorta looks like what is in your photo

Hard to say if that's it. The body of the thing has a color similar to his white scales, not brown so much. If it is one, remove with tweezers or??

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hard to say if that's it. The body of the thing has a color similar to his white scales, not brown so much. If it is one, remove with tweezers or??

Honestly, never done it but I would think easy enough with tweezers.
Gosh, this poor guy is tough, has been through dips and all this stuff- Now tweezers. . lol

 

[ReeferSamster]

Curious are you sure the meine dose is the same as fw?

Well, according to this study my dosage recommendation is quite conservative. Maybe a little too conservative and time consuming.

Anaesthetic Efficacy and Physiological Response of Clove Oil and Lidocaine-HCl on River Puffer, Takifugu obscurus and Tiger Puffer, T. rubripes

The effects of the anaesthetic agents, clove oil and mixture of clove oil with lidocaine-HCl were evaluated on river puffer, Takifugu obscurus and tiger puffer, T. rubripes. Anaesthesia times of clove oil were affected by water temperature (20℃, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But better safe than sorry. Patience is the best virtue in reefing. I've attached another pdf for your reference.

Besides, I'd be more concerned about weight to dosage ratio moreso than marine/reshwater. Its just clove oil.

 

[MnFish1]

Well, according to this study my dosage recommendation is quite conservative. Maybe a little too conservative and time consuming.

Anaesthetic Efficacy and Physiological Response of Clove Oil and Lidocaine-HCl on River Puffer, Takifugu obscurus and Tiger Puffer, T. rubripes

The effects of the anaesthetic agents, clove oil and mixture of clove oil with lidocaine-HCl were evaluated on river puffer, Takifugu obscurus and tiger puffer, T. rubripes. Anaesthesia times of clove oil were affected by water temperature (20℃, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But better safe than sorry. Patience is the best virtue in reefing. I've attached another pdf for your reference.

Besides, I'd be more concerned about weight to dosage ratio moreso than marine/reshwater. Its just clove oil.

I wasn't trying to debate you - I was only asking if you had data to suggest that the clove oil doseage was the same in fresh and salt water.

The paper you presented implied as much.

 

[ReeferSamster]

I have a coppeband butterfly in my tank. My copperband butterfly does not have that red spot at the base of his pectoral fins.

I can concur. You made me check my copperband! Willie never had red in that area. But I won't go as far as judging it as hemorrhaging. Maybe safer to say 'possible inflammation'. I don't recall any healthy copperbands nursed back to health in my local petlands discount store with a pinkish/red pectoral fin/gill area. But that was a long time ago and I wasn't actively looking for it at the time.

That's natural coloration of his fin... Always been there since day 1 I got him. Possibly the lighting. Both fins are exactly the same in that respect. His fin is red? Ok.

Please don't take anything as critique. It's just an observation. Everyone here is just trying to help. We can't assume natural coloration because its been there since day 1 of ownership. It could be possible inflammation. The left side might also be inflamed, the condition possibly affecting respiration in general, and the right side is more obtrusively 'developed'.

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Do you think the red got any "redder"?

Just asking because I want to help as does all.
Please don't take anything as pressure. Regardless of what advice you take, or what happens to your fish, no one will judge you.
We can tell that by your thread and detailed shots, you are trying your best.
Everyone is just trying to help with posts.
Let us know how the FW bath goes!
Good luck!

 

[ReeferSamster]

I wasn't trying to debate you - I was only asking if you had data to suggest that the clove oil doseage was the same in fresh and salt water.

Sorry. I'm just a very literal guy sometimes (and ironically at other times, quite the opposite). At this current exchange, I didn't view anything as a debate and I was honestly trying to spread information presenting the studies. Basically, I just talk too much. ;Dead

I guess it is hard to gauge nuances in communication via text. It's one of the disadvantages of a community solely based on the internet.

 

[Biff0rz]

I can concur. You made me check my copperband. Willie never had red in that area. But I won't go as far as judging it as hemorrhaging. Maybe safer to say 'possible inflammation'. I don't recall any healthy copperbands nursed back to health in my local petlands discount store with a pinkish/red pectoral fin/gill area. But that was a long time ago and I wasn't actively looking for it at the time.


Please don't take anything as critique. It's just an observation. Everyone here is just trying to help. We can't assume natural coloration because its been there since day 1 of ownership. It could be possible inflammation due to whatever is in his gill, and the left side might also be inflamed and the condition possibly affecting respiration in general, with the right side being more obtrusively 'developed'.

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Do you think the red got any "redder"?

Just asking because I want to help as does all.
Please don't take anything as pressure. Regardless of the what advice you take, or what happens to your fish, no one will judge you.
We can tell that by your thread and detailed shots, you are trying your best.
Everyone is just trying to help with posts.
Let us know how the FW bath goes!
Good luck!

Right, it's all good. I looked way back in photos and it wasn't present, but, it has been slow onset that it's become normal to me. I went to a lfs tonight and they said it looks like a growth and the red fins are probably irritation because of the object vs hemorrhaging. They suggested pulling him and having a helping hand hold the fish while I inspect it and try to dislodge it. They said it should be safer than clove oil and less dangerous. I'm thinking I may go that route.

 

[ReeferSamster]

I had to work, so my previous post was on my screen all day as a draft and forgot to click 'post reply'. I clicked it 3 hours too late after the FW bath.

They suggested pulling him and having a helping hand hold the fish while I inspect it and try to dislodge it. They said it should be safer than clove oil and less dangerous. I'm thinking I may go that route.

IMHO holding the fish while its fully conscious and squirming around actively might be more stressful than the clove oil. I suspect they might be saying that because they have never done it before?

Then again, I only had 1 experience and I might have just gotten lucky. He wasn't even fully sedated but just very listless, tilted completely sideways, which was enough for me to do the deed.

But after googling it more now, I see why the vet recommended this route instead of just holding down the fish. It's like the "go-to" safe method used for a very very long time in aquaculture and joe schmoe hobbyists, particularly used in this specific type of situation.

its all just IMHO and E from your typical average joe schmoe reefer. Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone's got one. Best wishes regardless of the outcome!

 

[Tritium]

I used to work in fisheries, and used clove oil to sedate lake trout in order to implant acoustic tracking devices in Lake Trout. It is extremely safe and effective when dosed correctly in my experience, and I would personally go clove oil 10/10 before trying to poke around the gills of a conscious fish.

Just my $.02

 

[Unitylover]

agree with the guy above me, a conscious fish would thrash around and cause damage to their gills.

 

[rmorris_14]

Hey! how is the CBB doing today? :::crossing fingers and toes::::