Why do people use rollers, pads, floss etc?

[chaostactics]

If you're gonna use mechanical filtration why wouldn't you use socks? Sock are reusable* floss, pads, rollers, none of them are reusable (to my knowledge).

Why join a hobby that should inspire reef conservancy just to contribute largely to microplastics waste?

*Socks can be manually rinsed by hand or flipped inside out (or not tbh) and run though the wash with a bit of bleach. Run your output of your washing machine though a filter sock clipped to a utility sink if you can to catch stray bits of sock that come off in the wash.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

and if anyone has a sandbed while they’re using roller mats it’s a huge waste of time and money, the sand withholds a third of the waste that can’t be removed by the mats, mats are a rip off wasteful concept.


but not as much as dosing cycling bac to a cycled reef in response to nitrite, lol thats ripping people off much more $
We get scammed a lot right


roller mats are the second dumbest fad in reefing, sorry to roller mat investors i didn’t mean to shame for trending styles

 

[andrecr]

Hey! For the roller part, I use it because its clean and efective. I don't have much time to do husbandry on my reef, mainly on weekends and to be honest I'm a bit of a lazy reefer as well.
If you recycle your used rollers it's fine. Socks have plastic to, there is the need to recycle after the their lifespawn

 

[brandon429]

Post a full tank shot, looking for presence of a sandbed

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Yeah roller mat things never made sense to me. There so many cheaper and easier ways to get mechanical filtration done. Personally I believe that mechanical filtration in general I’m detrimental for the food web and overall ecosystem of a reef tank. I don’t use it.

 

[Forty-Two]

The reason I chose roller mats is for a few reasons:
1) its considerably more efficient than socks - removing more waste. This results in having to 'treat' the tank with less chemicals/dosing/solutions etc
2) I have a bad back, which means bending over to get the socks out 2-3 times a week would create considerable pain. I wish to avoid this pain and thus - roller mat is a better option for me
3) I dont have a lot of time - with a large number of responsibilities in a given day. I dont have time to change out filter socks and wash them 2-3 times a week
4) Washing the socks in laundry - not a good idea - Im concerned about the impact of soap and other matter getting into the tank
5) Washing by hand - not enough time in the week to do that


Lastly - I wouldnt assume that on the whole that socks are more environmentally friendly than a roller. I think this is highly debatable. Socks will break down and leave behind micro materials at the end of the day which gets into the waterbed. Not only that - but you're going to be using a fair bit of resources to remove the effects of additional waste in the aquarium system that the socks miss compared to rollers, and as well the amount of energy and resources needed to continuously wash the socks.

 

[brandon429]

i have a working theory that all roller mat users have a totally cloudy sandbed when disturbed, meaning dropping down a handful of sand will cloud from one side to another


all roller mat users please post full tank shot with the post


what good is paying for rolls of replacement matting when the rocks and sand simply contain and retain orders more waste that isn’t exported

it would make better sense to have a catchment system in a bare bottom, high flow system.

 

[Onewolf]

i have a working theory that all roller mat users have a totally cloudy sandbed when disturbed, meaning dropping down a handful of sand will cloud from one side to another


all roller mat users please post full tank shot with the post

I guess I'm even more dense than usual this morning but I don't see the difference between sock and roller mat usage when it comes to sand beds? Please explain using small words. Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

edited in a clarification above

 

[Forty-Two]

what good is paying for rolls of replacement matting when the rocks and sand simply contain and retain orders more waste that isn’t exported

This depends on a number of factors. You're making a large number of assumptions and making blanket statements.

Rollermats can be configured to run for specific times, or specific water levels which will cause them to trigger - which means its variable how much they are capturing to export. It doesnt mean the are running 24X7.

 

[brandon429]

But they reach an end, can’t be recharged, and is like doing auto oil changes by paying jiffy lube for the labor and the costs but instructing them to never replace the oil filter. It’s paying more, for removing less than just a simple bare bottom setup would allow.

I only think they’re a total waste in bedded systems. If someone does not want to use a siphon hose in a bare bottom tank to export / waste the catch material it’s no different than the twenty six million hob pads we’ve all changed out from a freshwater tank.


the design shortcutting irks me…don’t store up the detritus in the total obvious ways by paying to remove a trace of what gets into the water.

 

[Forty-Two]

But they reach an end, can’t be recharged, and is like doing auto oil changes by paying jiffy lube for the labor and the costs but instructing them to never replace the oil filter. It’s paying more, for removing less than just a simple bare bottom setup would allow.

I only think they’re a total waste in bedded systems. If someone does not want to use a siphon hose in a bare bottom tank to export / waste the catch material it’s no different than the twenty six million hob pads we’ve all changed out from a freshwater tank.


the design shortcutting irks me…don’t store up the detritus in the total obvious ways by paying to remove a trace of what gets into the water.

Lets be more specific please. Im not clear on the argument you are making.

The original argument the Op made was environmental. I believe there is sufficient evidence to argue that its highly doubtful there is a significant difference b/w rollers and socks when it comes to environmental waste. This is for the following reasons:

1) Washing and drying your socks in a washing machine and drying machine use a huge amount of resources. In addition, residue is often left on the socks. This can lead to issues of spikes in phosphates and other foreign material getting into the tank - which then leads to....more dosing and treatments. That's expensive environmentally.

2) Socks are often not cleaned regularly - which leads to extra nutrients getting back into the tank. This can and does happen and leads to outbreaks/blooms and in some cases damaged/dead coral and in some rare cases dead fish. The consequence of this is that it leads to panic, more treatment, dosing and all sorts of outcomes. That is all environmentally very expensive.

In addition, since rollermats are much more efficient, a skimmer does not need to be run as often. This saves on power.

3) Its early days for rollermats. I havent investigated recyclable fleece, so I cant comment on it - but there is a high likelyhood that this product could be developed very easily, and if there is enough demand, it will be.

I wont even get started on the implications of reefing in general in relation to environmental concerns. If you're really worried about the environment, its probably best not to have a reef tank in the first place.

Regarding your second argument - that its a waste if you have a bed. There is significant evidence that points to the fact that is not necessarily the case - it would depend on how the user has it configured. If you want to be logical/scientific in your approach as Ive seen you advocate in many other threads - do it here as well.

i) As i pointed out above - fleece's can and do operate on a timer and/or on a water level. This means that the user can filter as much or as little as they'd like - and make sure its a consistent removal of detritus from the water

ii) Rollers can use a variety of 'fleece' - there is light, medium and thick - this means that again - the user can remove what they want to from the system. I agree - its a bad idea to remove everything. Just like anything else in this hobby it has to be tested, analyzed and then implemented. If a user also has a sandbed - this is not a problem. Sandbeds arent just for functionality - in some cases, they are also for aesthetics.

If cost is your argument - that one is 'paying to remove from the system' - we're doing that all the time, in different ways.

Whats the difference between this way and that way? We use carbon, we use GFO - these are constantly replaced, we use CUC's - in some cases we know they are going to die, but we put them in anyways. We dose knowing that we're just dumping in nutrients because something else is not right with the system but we're patching it to make it work.

Who are you to decide what one should 'pay to remove from the system'?

While Im on the paying topic - I would argue that again - its likely rollermaters are more responsible and more efficient dollar for dollar than many of the other systems we put in to 'remove from the system'. See the above arguments for the same reasoning. Its stable, predictable, and efficient.

 

[MichaelReefer]

My Clarisea keeps my tank crystal clear, and the maintenance goes down a lot... I work 11 hour days, five days a week. Thats less time I have to spend cleaning socks. Yes it ends up being more expensive, but the convenience factor is amazing. Same reason I dose as well... I dont have enough time in a day as is, but I want to have my tank...

 

[Little c big D]

Lets be more specific please. Im not clear on the argument you are making.

The original argument the Op made was environmental. I believe there is sufficient evidence to argue that its highly doubtful there is a significant difference b/w rollers and socks when it comes to environmental waste. This is for the following reasons:

1) Washing and drying your socks in a washing machine and drying machine use a huge amount of resources. In addition, residue is often left on the socks. This can lead to issues of spikes in phosphates and other foreign material getting into the tank - which then leads to....more dosing and treatments. That's expensive environmentally.

2) Socks are often not cleaned regularly - which leads to extra nutrients getting back into the tank. This can and does happen and leads to outbreaks/blooms and in some cases damaged/dead coral and in some rare cases dead fish. The consequence of this is that it leads to panic, more treatment, dosing and all sorts of outcomes. That is all environmentally very expensive.

In addition, since rollermats are much more efficient, a skimmer does not need to be run as often. This saves on power.

3) Its early days for rollermats. I havent investigated recyclable fleece, so I cant comment on it - but there is a high likelyhood that this product could be developed very easily, and if there is enough demand, it will be.

I wont even get started on the implications of reefing in general in relation to environmental concerns. If you're really worried about the environment, its probably best not to have a reef tank in the first place.

Regarding your second argument - that its a waste if you have a bed. There is significant evidence that points to the fact that is not necessarily the case - it would depend on how the user has it configured. If you want to be logical/scientific in your approach as Ive seen you advocate in many other threads - do it here as well.

i) As i pointed out above - fleece's can and do operate on a timer and/or on a water level. This means that the user can filter as much or as little as they'd like - and make sure its a consistent removal of detritus from the water

ii) Rollers can use a variety of 'fleece' - there is light, medium and thick - this means that again - the user can remove what they want to from the system. I agree - its a bad idea to remove everything. Just like anything else in this hobby it has to be tested, analyzed and then implemented. If a user also has a sandbed - this is not a problem. Sandbeds arent just for functionality - in some cases, they are also for aesthetics.

If cost is your argument - that one is 'paying to remove from the system' - we're doing that all the time, in different ways.

Whats the difference between this way and that way? We use carbon, we use GFO - these are constantly replaced, we use CUC's - in some cases we know they are going to die, but we put them in anyways. We dose knowing that we're just dumping in nutrients because something else is not right with the system but we're patching it to make it work.

Who are you to decide what one should 'pay to remove from the system'?

While Im on the paying topic - I would argue that again - its likely rollermaters are more responsible and more efficient dollar for dollar than many of the other systems we put in to 'remove from the system'. See the above arguments for the same reasoning. Its stable, predictable, and efficient.

You could be completely lying and I wouldn't know because of how well that was written lol. I don't mind the use of socks and I never bleach them, only rinse with RO to not prematurely break down the sock. I love the idea of roller mats but I think there's a time and place for either application. I also fully agree on the lack of difference in terms of environmental impact

 

[Frostblitz20]

Pretty sure BRS did a Roller mat/ Filter sock video about the perks/cons of both..

 

[G Santana]

I understand why people would use them it's just that for me the cost does not justify the purchase.
I bought a roll of material, the wife made 10 socks from it and 8 months in, I'm still using them.
The onetime cost was less than $30, over the same time I would have spent $240 in rolls.
Just doesn't make financial sense.
But it's cool looking!!!

 

[Little c big D]

Pretty sure BRS did a Roller mat/ Filter sock video about the perks/cons of both..

so, several months for a 40$ roll. The initial cost is higher than a sock. But for how it functions... if it lasts 4months, that's 10$ a month. That's really nothing in this hobby

 

[MichaelReefer]

so, several months for a 40$ roll. The initial cost is higher than a sock. But for how it functions... if it lasts 4months, that's 10$ a month. That's really nothing in this hobby

Meh, you aren't getting no four months off a roll. I get about a month.

 

[Little c big D]

I imagine tank size would play a huge roll in this. Also bio load. I was just referring to the brs video...

Meh, you aren't getting no four months off a roll. I get about a month.

 

[MediocreAtEverything]

Rollermats are no more wasteful than if you keep paper towels in your kitchen. The amount of gunk that my rollermat pulls reinforces my decision to never try filter socks. I have no idea what the sand bed has to do with a rollermat? Do people really think that having your tank filled with detritus and gunk is better than having a large portion of it being removed before it clouds and pollutes the tank? Its not like having a rollermat keeps your tank "sterile" or lab clean, there is still plenty of detritus in my sump and sand if I don't clean it periodically. I see so many pictures of peoples tanks where they never clean the sand its always covered in algea or cyano. I just see so much "old school" or "dated thinking" on here. You can make your argument on low nutrients with a rollermat, but a clean tank will always be better than a dirty one. There is a difference between filth and nutrients. There are hundreds of ways to have a good tank, I definitely want a clean one.