Why Fish in Captivity get Sick

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atoll

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One of the issues with medication like copper is for some fish a certain dose might be tolerated while to another it's a death wish. Copper is poisonous of course and does not discriminate. I am no expert on fish disease and my last experience of dealing with such go back over 30 years. The same old diseases are still there and the medications etc don't seem to have changed so much, copper in whatever form still being the method of choice. My self and that of others believe we found a better way to combat disease and parasites which have worked for us for many years.
I liken it to Luke Skywalker when he is in his X-wing fighter trying to destroy the dark star was it. Anyway Obi One Conobi guy tells him to turn off the technology and targeting system and use his own ability or whatever it was and he destroys the itch I mean the dark star. Might not be such a good analogy but I liken it to going against convention to achieve a the result.
 
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Paul B

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Ingchr1, that doesn't sound to bad, of course we all strive for zero losses. :)

I have about 25 fish in my 125 gallon tank and there are many times that I can't see one of them. I can't see any now. OK the light is off, but I can see with the room light and not one fish is visible. My tank is such a maze of tunnels and caves that they all very easily find a place to "sleep". They dream about eyelids instead of being eaten out in the open. I have to look very close to find them as most places I can't see.

My entire 6' reef structure is off the gravel an inch or so and the fish are all under there where it leads to a chamber somewhere.

Most of them come out during the day, or at least they make an appearance. Many of them are spawning so they stay in a nook with their eggs or their mate.

These Watchmans live in a cozy cave under a rock where they hollowed out a niche about a foot long from the front to the back under the reef. I can almost never see them and sometimes I "shoot" some food in there.


Last week I was looking with a flashlight and I saw them with their eggs in a different cave that they built about 6" from their first burrow.

After their eggs hatched, they went back to their original cave. I don't know why but just the fact that they lay eggs means they are very content, not afraid and as healthy as a fish can be because it is impossible for a female fish to be laying eggs unless she is in great shape and not stressed at all.



I also almost never see these guys any more and I worried that they died or jumped. The right side of my tank is behind a movable wall which is in a closet and don't clean that end of the tank glass.
I had to move a rock there and install a powerhead so I scrapped the glass and in the corner, under the Under Gravel filter tube, there they are going in and out of a little home made tunnel. I am sure they keep laying eggs in there but I can't see there. They live there and graze on the thick algae and mulm covered glass and rocks there.





I had two of these sunburst anthius. I got them at different times and this one bullied the other one incessantly for months to the point where the other one couldn't eat. Eventually they co existed and I think they were going to spawn but this one was always dominant. After a while the other one stopped eating and died. No disease just bullied to death.
I still have this one.


If I see another one I may get it but it seems with this species at least, they are sometimes incompatible and may not change sex or do so very slowly and in a tank where one can't get away they can be killed.

I also had two of these Janss Pipefish. They were young and with this species it isn't easy to tell males from females. This one bullied the other, smaller one to where he couldn't eat and kept biting him until he died. He is rather large, about 7" and he also bit my little male bluestripe pipefish almost in half. I still have this one and he is maybe 5 years old.

(I posted that)





Right in the center of this pipefish, you can see a white mark, That is where the larger pipefish bit him.



Now my female bluestripe pipefish, after that one killed her mate hangs around the Janss pipefish and keeps trying to mate with him. He is at least three times larger and it ain't gonna happen and she seems to be annoying him but he puts up with it. She is also about 5 or 6. The male is pregnant here.





This is a view through the back of my tank after I cleaned it for the picture. It is a maze of hiding places.



We should be talking about our fish spawning and just being healthy and "happy" but it seems most of this hobby is problems and disease.
I am only trying to show some of my methods and people can take what they wish from that and see if any of it would benefit their own hobby.

My tank seems very easy for me and I don't spend much time on it at all except I have to clean the front glass every day.
 
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Paul B

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This video shows many of the hiding places in my tank and you can see from front to back often.
You can also see some hair algae and cyano, both natural.

 

atoll

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This video shows many of the hiding places in my tank and you can see from front to back often.
You can also see some hair algae and cyano, both natural.

I also have a little GHA and cyno. People get paranoid about them, why I'm not so sure.Both are quite natural and found on the reef. I don't worry about it at all why should I. I understand people not wanting a tank over run with them but a little is fine by me and my reef.
 
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Many people never dove so they don't know how natural it is.
Reefs are not nice and white, they are overgrown with all sorts of things like this in Hawaii. And this wasn't off Oahu, this was far from civilization on a tiny Island.







This is the Caribbean.




Key Largo.


Notice in all these pictures the growth on the rocks. Thats normal, natural and healthy.
In my video you can see my tank sort of mimics that, and remember I moved my tank here 2 years ago and had to break all my corals and take apart the rocks to get them here.
I rinsed off my gravel and threw it in the tank, many of those rocks I built before I moved here because this tank is a little bigger than my old one.

But I strive for that growth on my rocks as that is health.

Look at this clingfish. He is on my side glass, I turned the picture sideways to make it easier to see the fish. That mulm and algae on the glass is life and that is on a 2 year old piece of glass. My pipefish and many others hunt there all day which is one reason they are healthy and spawning.
This is missing in many tanks and the tank doesn't have to be old to have it.

Just fed correctly and not cleaned like you clean your bed sheets. (at least I hope you do) ;Bucktooth

 
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atoll

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Many people never dove so they don't know how natural it is.
Reefs are not nice and white, they are overgrown with all sorts of things like this in Hawaii. And this wasn't off Oahu, this was far from civilization on a tiny Island.







This is the Caribbean.




Key Largo.


Notice in all these pictures the growth on the rocks. Thats normal, natural and healthy
I sometimes wonder if at tank has no algae or is not capable of growing algae if it is as healthy as people think. That's not to say the fish and corals aren't doing well in a tank without a little algae growing here and there just not as healthy as it could be.
 

atoll

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Hey @atoll can you post how this works and how you use it on another thread?
Just do a search for Oxydator on here. There are a couple of threads. Also there is a very good Facebook group many on here have joined with lots of information on Oxydators. Oxydator user group. If you join check out the files section on there as well as the posts.
 
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Paul B

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Here are my white worms eating some dry cat food. They love it and will finish all those pellets tonight, but their incessant "Meowing" is annoying.

thumbnail.jpg
 

Paulie069

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Many people never dove so they don't know how natural it is.
Reefs are not nice and white, they are overgrown with all sorts of things like this in Hawaii. And this wasn't off Oahu, this was far from civilization on a tiny Island.







This is the Caribbean.




Key Largo.


Notice in all these pictures the growth on the rocks. Thats normal, natural and healthy.
In my video you can see my tank sort of mimics that, and remember I moved my tank here 2 years ago and had to break all my corals and take apart the rocks to get them here.
I rinsed off my gravel and threw it in the tank, many of those rocks I built before I moved here because this tank is a little bigger than my old one.

But I strive for that growth on my rocks as that is health.

Look at this clingfish. He is on my side glass, I turned the picture sideways to make it easier to see the fish. That mulm and algae on the glass is life and that is on a 2 year old piece of glass. My pipefish and many others hunt there all day which is one reason they are healthy and spawning.
This is missing in many tanks and the tank doesn't have to be old to have it.

Just fed correctly and not cleaned like you clean your bed sheets. (at least I hope you do) ;Bucktooth

Ok so I read this again (never get it first time) and really looked hard at the pic and it smacked me in the face that I gotta stop my OCD obsession to keep tank clean as humanly possible,, even though I live by the thought of let Mother Nature take care of it and feel nothing better than pure Ocean Water,, I still attack algae when I see it on my rocks with brass brush till it’s almost spotless. So after reading your post twice and staring at the pics I’m gonna make a conscious effort to not be me and let it go a little.
Or until my OCD makes my head explode then I’m elbow deep in my tank lol
Maybe I’ll put a post it note on tank saying
GO AWAY PAULIE LEAVE ME ALONE
 

HuduVudu

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Ok so I read this again (never get it first time) and really looked hard at the pic and it smacked me in the face that I gotta stop my OCD obsession to keep tank clean as humanly possible,, even though I live by the thought of let Mother Nature take care of it and feel nothing better than pure Ocean Water,, I still attack algae when I see it on my rocks with brass brush till it’s almost spotless. So after reading your post twice and staring at the pics I’m gonna make a conscious effort to not be me and let it go a little.
Or until my OCD makes my head explode then I’m elbow deep in my tank lol
Maybe I’ll put a post it note on tank saying
GO AWAY PAULIE LEAVE ME ALONE
I find that there is always an equipment or asthetic problem outside of the tank that I can turn my attention to. This keeps me out of the inside of the tank.
 

ingchr1

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...I do question that part of that diversity would include or require terrestrial worms and dirt. I would think it would have to be diversity from the environment the fish is from, the ocean...
...I live away from the sea so no mud from me and am far from sure it would be OK from our polluted waters. I use an Oxydator to keep a high level of oxygen in my tank.
I don't use worms but grow pods outside in the summer and hatch brine shrimp. I buy fresh food ingredients from the fish market and so on...
This appears to answer that question. Not saying there's no benefit, just saying that success can be had without.

Paul uses ozone and atoll a Oxydator, that appears to be part of the equation. I have been thinking of adding an Oxydator to my tank.

Paul blasts out his tank and runs through a diatom filter. Is that another part of the equation? I started doing the same on my tank, and anecdotally I think it has improved the tank.

Several months ago ulva started to take over my tank. At first I was frustrated by it, but now I just consider it a part of the reef. Giving a more natural look.

IMG_20201029_161457571.jpg
 

Paulie069

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This appears to answer that question. Not saying there's no benefit, just saying that success can be had without.

Paul uses ozone and atoll a Oxydator, that appears to be part of the equation. I have been thinking of adding an Oxydator to my tank.

Paul blasts out his tank and runs through a diatom filter. Is that another part of the equation? I started doing the same on my tank, and anecdotally I think it has improved the tank.

Several months ago ulva started to take over my tank. At first I was frustrated by it, but now I just consider it a part of the reef. Giving a more natural look.

IMG_20201029_161457571.jpg
Nice brother let Mother Nature do her thing
 

HuduVudu

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Paul uses ozone and atoll a Oxydator, that appears to be part of the equation.
I use huge flow so another way of solving this equation.

I like the Oxydator ... seems interesting. Got that on my research list.

Paul blasts out his tank and runs through a diatom filter. Is that another part of the equation?
I stir my sand and wave off the rocks occasionally to help keep things from getting constipated.

Several months ago ulva started to take over my tank. At first I was frustrated by it, but now I just consider it a part of the reef.
Once your corals and zoas start to be able to get a foothold then they will start to compete with the algae and things will start to balance.

For me the "winners", in your case the algae, seem to come in waves. The older the tank the smaller the waves because there are so many competitors for space, nutrients and light.
 

Mr. Fishy Fish

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This appears to answer that question. Not saying there's no benefit, just saying that success can be had without.

Paul uses ozone and atoll a Oxydator, that appears to be part of the equation. I have been thinking of adding an Oxydator to my tank.

Paul blasts out his tank and runs through a diatom filter. Is that another part of the equation? I started doing the same on my tank, and anecdotally I think it has improved the tank.

Several months ago ulva started to take over my tank. At first I was frustrated by it, but now I just consider it a part of the reef. Giving a more natural look.

IMG_20201029_161457571.jpg

This makes me wonder, maybe I ought to throw some ulva in my new DT. Instead of hair algae, I'll have ulva all over the place.

P.S. @Paul B after looking at your videos, I realize what you meant about my aquascape. It's definitely not good. I'm going to need a lot more rock. My wallet is crying out to me in pain ;Dead . Oh well, fish health is more important than my wallet. Also, do you have a rusting license plate in your tank? I think I saw a license plate in one of your videos amongst many other things ignorant people would probably linch you for ;Hilarious.
 
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atoll

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This appears to answer that question. Not saying there's no benefit, just saying that success can be had without.

Paul uses ozone and atoll a Oxydator, that appears to be part of the equation. I have been thinking of adding an Oxydator to my tank.

Paul blasts out his tank and runs through a diatom filter. Is that another part of the equation? I started doing the same on my tank, and anecdotally I think it has improved the tank.

Several months ago ulva started to take over my tank. At first I was frustrated by it, but now I just consider it a part of the reef. Giving a more natural look.

IMG_20201029_161457571.jpg
I don't think Paul uses ozone since his broke a couple of years ago.
I also have a good amount of flow in my tank.
About once a week or so I give the sand I can see a bit of a bkastvwith a long tube feeder that has one of those rubber balls you squeeze on the end. I only have about 1" of sand on the bottom of my tank.
I have no prefiltration what so ever unless you call a skimmer prefiltration which technically it is to a point.
 
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Paul B

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Fritz
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Speaking of your latest coral purchase...

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