hi,great read..and best wishes...
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Yep those were the daysRobbyg, I don't think anyone knows what it is but you and me know that when we grew up, there were no computers or cell phones so we spent all our time outside playing in the dirt. We dug worms and went fishing, we climbed trees and we ate as bunch of questionable foods.
In those days milk went bad in a couple of days and before we drank it we smelled it because it was often stale.
Today it lasts 2 months. Why? What did they do to it?
We didn't wash our hands very often because we were outside constantly.
While fishing with filthy worms how many times have we stuck the hook into our finger? We just wiped off the blood on our sleeve and kept fishing.
We also fought and got cut. It's hard to get cut on a computer unless you drop it on your foot.
WE also walked or bicycled many places as most families had only one car and your parent had it.
We got a lot of sunshine. That glow that is emitted from your cell phone will not make any vitamin D.
Yes I am aware of the changes but the simple fact is that I have met many children with Autism and in most cases its prett obvious. Growing up I never saw any kids with these issues. Not to say that they did not exist but they were evidently very rare.A factor to consider with why these diagnoses are showing in greater numbers today is the criterion for diagnosis has changed. This is pretty common in multiple areas of medicine, but as we learn more we are able to detect diseases with greater precision which means we will find more cases.
"The DSM-III was revised in 1987, significantly altering the autism criteria. It broadened the concept of autism by adding a diagnosis at the mild end of the spectrum — pervasive developmental disorder-not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS) — and dropping the requirement for onset before 30 months. "
.The evolution of ‘autism’ as a diagnosis, explained
From a form of childhood schizophrenia to a spectrum of conditions, the characterization of autism in diagnostic manuals has a complicated history.www.spectrumnews.org
I have listened to tapes by Dr. Joel Wallach he is a vet, an MD, and a strong proponent of nutrition. He says a craving for dirt is a mineral deficiency. Vitamins and minerals are also a key to health. You can't, in this day and age be certain that you can get all of those nutrients from your food. If it is not in the soil it won't be in the fruit or veggie. I take his supplements they help me feel better.There is an actual condition in which people, typically women, have sudden urges to eat dirt. So...maybe that will help?
Hi Paul....I took your advice on live worms and feed my fish white worms regularly. Happy to report my fish shake off all diseases with enthusiasm- they might get a spot or two that looks like ick but it will be gone within 24 hours. Never off their food and happy fish come what may!In the 2000s a neurobiologist researcher in Ireland was studying gut microbes on the brain and how they and stress affected mental and gut health.
I don't want to bore everyone more with all this research but in short it was found that stress also affects gut microbes and gut microbe health can cause stress in us and I assume in fish.
When the salt water fish hobby started in the US, in 1971 in New York anyway where I live I bought the first salt water fish available which were blue devils.
(I wrote about this many times and it is in my book)
Those 7 blue devils were always sick and I had to keep copper pennies in their tank constantly
(Liquid copper was not available to me at the time)
The copper kept the parasites from killing the fish but the dosing and subsequent overdosing was tricky.
After about a year I discovered live blackworms and started feeding them to my fish. After seven weeks something happened. The fish became much "bluer" and looked so much better. I stopped using the pennies and the fish didn't die.
One of the fish became, or always was male and his clear fins also became royal blue. The 6 female’s fins remained clear but their blue was very blue.
They spawned, and continued spawning for many years. And that was in 1972, when most people didn't even know what salt was unless it was in a small container with holes in it on the table next to the pepper.
Since then I have been feeding live worms a few times a week. I can't get live blackworms now where I live so I raise (very easily) white worms which live in dirt.
It seems that those worms, for some reason, have the same good bacteria that our fish need for immunity because since then, none of my fish have ever been sick with any communicable disease like ich or velvet and in those fifty years I have added many fish.
Virtually all my paired fish spawn and the rest of them only die of old age, jumping out or being bullied.
They always eat, are social, get along (unless I stupidly add something that I should not have) and never give me any problem.
I have no medications, hospital or quarantine tank and after a few minutes of acclimation, put the fish right in no matter if the tank they came from was heavily infected with some sort of parasites.
I also feed shellfish and if I can get it live, I like it better because when we feed shellfish like clams, oysters or mussels we feed the entire creature and those creatures are almost all guts as they don't have arms and legs to waste nutrients on. Those guts seem to also have the living bacteria and parasites that will keep our fish immune.
(Fish, and us need to be occasionally exposed to disease organisms including parasites to stay immune to them)
I am not sure about shellfish sold as “aquarium food” because they could be old, deep frozen or irradiated to kill bacteria. Again, I am guessing here so I like to buy living shellfish and freeze it myself if I can.
But living worms seem to work just as well. White worms can be had by Googling "white worm culture" you get a small supply for about fifteen bucks that you put in a shoe box size plastic container with damp potting soil. Keep them under about 80 degrees and feed dry cat food or bread with yogurt on it. I have a culture going for many years and I get millions of inch long worms.
Fish disease is a non-issue for me and I believe it is due to the microbes in the food I feed and have been feeding since the 70s.
Store bought dry food, no matter what it is; will not have these healthy gut microbes, only living or freshly frozen "whole" creatures will have this.
Fish fillets, shrimp, octopus, scallop will also not as you are only getting the muscle of those animals and not the gut microbes.
This food does not have to be fed at every meal but “I” feel dry foods should never be fed except for short intervals like vacations.
Pro-biotics while great (I take them myself) will also not have the full complement of microbes that are needed for immunity. Only the variety of bacteria that exist in living, or freshly frozen animals will supply this.
So in short, I feel when we buy a fish, if we don’t already have a quarantined tank, acclimate the new fish, put it in your tank and the first meal should be something like live worms or fresh shellfish as I mentioned. Nothing else is needed and dry foods should not be used except for vacation but never at first. Whiteworms live in soil. Don’t be concerned if some of that soil gets in your tank. As a matter of fact, make sure some soil gets into your tank.
Someone posted not long ago that their fish died because it ate a piece of dirt! Really!. Fish eat poop, dirt won’t hurt them and is actually needed
If this is followed and our fish are in a proper, natural tank with natural hiding places (no stark white PVC or anything man made looking) and they are never medicated, they should end up immune from everything except jumping out or maybe your cat.
Never be another tough generation,, your generation was tougher than mine and mine, the proof look at what’s going on nowadays. The news is most depressing show on tv,, it’s y I’d rather be on the aquarium sites with all these Good people,, much betterRobbyg, I don't think anyone knows what it is but you and me know that when we grew up, there were no computers or cell phones so we spent all our time outside playing in the dirt. We dug worms and went fishing, we climbed trees and we ate as bunch of questionable foods.
In those days milk went bad in a couple of days and before we drank it we smelled it because it was often stale.
Today it lasts 2 months. Why? What did they do to it?
We didn't wash our hands very often because we were outside constantly.
While fishing with filthy worms how many times have we stuck the hook into our finger? We just wiped off the blood on our sleeve and kept fishing.
We also fought and got cut. It's hard to get cut on a computer unless you drop it on your foot.
WE also walked or bicycled many places as most families had only one car and your parent had it.
We got a lot of sunshine. That glow that is emitted from your cell phone will not make any vitamin D.
Very interesting article.Why Fish In Captivity Get Sick
As some people may know I have been talking about how my fish have never gotten sick in decades and I have been offered many reasons why such as I am Lucky or my tank has some mysterious creature that eats parasites, my Undergravel sucks up parasites and diseases, the Ozone I use kills diseases (I have not used Ozone in almost 3 years) UV light won't allow diseases to flourish (I never used UV light) or a variety of other "explanations".
I am pretty sure I know the reason and I have known it for many years but never actually had proof. Now I do.
My wife has MS and has had it for over 20 years so I research all I can about it. My Grand Son and Granddaughter also have health problems that can be life threatening. Because of this I do a lot of researching of new therapies or any ideas or theories that may be pertinent to this.
Two of my friends are Neurologists and I have spoken to them on this also.
Ever since the 80s I have thought there was some kind of important connection between the organisms living in our, and animals guts and the brain. At first I figured it was slightly but not very important. Now I know differently.
I read all I can find on this relationship and in this months "Discover" magazine (Nov. 2020)
There are two articles on the subject. They mainly focus on mental health and Autism but they outline how gut microbes control our health. Something I have known all along but didn't put it all together so completely.
The article starts out by quoting the Doctor at UCLA in 1990. He started thinking about how tiny organisms, too small to be seen could function as "powerful, "self-contained machines" powerful enough to take over and destroy the Human body.
The gist of one of these articles is about a young boy who had Autism and severe gastrointestinal symptoms.
He then had new microbes introduced into his gut which changed everything. Within a year he was almost back to normal and no longer is considered to have Autism and his internal issues are also resolved.
"Our body, especially our intestines are teeming with thousands of types of bacteria but it was largely unknown how they affected the body besides causing illness.”
Then he thought, "Why would the human immune system which is designed to attack and destroy foreign invaders, allow hundreds of species of bacteria to live and thrive in our guts unmolested?"
The answer is, there must be some sort of benefit to both the microbes and the body.
A "Symbiotic System".
Early research was done on lab mice that were bred to have no bacteria in their bodies. It was found that those mice had a 30 to 40% reduction of a specific type of immune cell known as "helper T cells”.
Helper T cells help stop invading pathogens and it was found that germ free mice were far less robust than mice with a full complement of microbes.
Copper, antibiotics and most aquarium medications either kill or severely alter gut microbes
Those sterile mice were then given fecal transplants from healthy mice and within a month were just as healthy and had a strong immune response as healthy mice.
I realize mice, Humans and fish are different but we all evolved together and our gut microme, just as in a fish act very much the same in relation to health.
One of the biggest things this researcher found was a gut microbe named "B.fragilis" played a key role in preventing the immune system from attacking its host and protecting against autoimmune diseases. (We don't want to kill that one)
(I was very interested in this because my wife's MS is an autoimmune disease)
I don't know if fish get autoimmune diseases but it seems odd to me that many fish in quarantine or medicated for one disease, all of a sudden are afflicted with other, non-related diseases. You know and I know that is very common.
Quarantine by itself I don't feel will cause disease unless the fish is stressed as in a bare tank with PVC "decorations or if the fish is not being fed food with living bacteria (microbes) in it.
Getting back to the research. It was found that children with Autism had "leaky Gut Syndrome" which allowed microbes, one in particular called "4-ethylphenyl sulfate" to circulate in the blood.
Tests were performed on mice and it was found that if they injected 4-ethylphenyl sulfate into healthy mice, they were more easily startled and were less comfortable in large empty spaces than their untreated peers and an increase in anxiety-related behaviors.
Also (in mice anyway who have been given this molecule or have autism like symptoms) several important species involving the digestion of carbohydrates were severely depleted.
That sounds very similar to me to fish that are quarantined, on meds or not eating living bacteria and why many of them refuse to eat, stay hidden, and try to jump out or just die.
We humans are more bacteria than human. 1.3 to 1 to be exact. Our gut houses 100 trillion bacteria (I didn't count them) it is a complicated microbial universe which plays a very important part in our and our fish’s health.
These microbes help us digest food, keep harmful microbes at bay and control our emotions.
(Maybe Vulcans use these)
Continued below
Not to derail the topic...Very interesting article.
I grew up in the 60's early 70's high school grad 75.
Always outdoors doing something and still do.
Another big difference is soap.
I washed my hands with natural glycerin bar soap and still do.
For many year now everyone seems to use soap that kills 99.9% of all bacteria.
It seems to be worse now since everyone uses the same 99.9% bacteria gel due to covid.
My wife and I (both physicians, but NOT working in GI) have read (for fun) several research studies on the gut biome and overall health symbiosis.
Great observation! My wife says she learned the same thing in her microbiology class. Antibacterial soup/sanitizer is bad. It kills bacteria (both good and bad bacteria)....Very interesting article.
I grew up in the 60's early 70's high school grad 75.
Always outdoors doing something and still do.
Another big difference is soap.
I washed my hands with natural glycerin bar soap and still do.
For many year now everyone seems to use soap that kills 99.9% of all bacteria.
It seems to be worse now since everyone uses the same 99.9% bacteria gel due to covid.
If your young and healthy and don’t depend on your parents for survival then I might see why your not worried about the virus. For the rest of us it’s very frightening!Not to derail the topic...
But I'm fearful of everyone's "precautions" from covid more than the virus itself.
There are studies on how raising children in cleaner/more sterile environments MAY (capital letters for emphasis) cause food allergies/sensitivities. It's called the hygiene hypothesis!On the subject of Autism.
I know to younger folks it will seem crazy but growing up in the 1970's-1980's I had never even heard of Autism! I never met a kid in school that had it and I don't remember the subject ever coming up on the news. Then in the 90s this problem just seemed to be happening to kids everywhere.
I now have two nephews with it and they are the first in several generations of the family to have it.
I did some research on it and found that in the 80's only 1 in 1000 kids had Autism and today it's 16 in 1000. Whats changed? It could be our diets as PaulB suggested or it could be one of the newer vaccines. I know myself and almost every kid had all our Vaccine shots growing up but I have no idea if something has been added or changed in the last 30 years. At one point I thought it had to be related to all the TV and video games kids play but I now feel confident that is not the case. Some people say it's just that we are more aware of the signs of it. Nope my wife has worked in the Medical field since the mid 1980s and she says that what she see's today is nothing like what it was when she started.
Could it be Pollution, processed foods, the list goes on. It's one of those mysteries that I wish they would solve.
Ok boomer. We're in the process of invading this forum as the old fossils get all cranky and complainy about our ballin' new ways; those that can't adapt and evolve...well, y'all should know what dodos are. 4ll ur tanks r belong 2 us. 1337sp34k. Y33T!!!!Never be another tough generation,, your generation was tougher than mine and mine is the last of the real bad ***** GenX, nothing but bubble wrapped snowflakes now,, the proof look at what’s going on nowadays. The news is most depressing show on tv,, it’s y I’d rather be on the aquarium sites with all these Good people,, much better