Zoa fungus?

[olivia]

I got these zoas yesterday, and only some of the polyps are/were opening up. The water in the bag smelled pretty bad, but I assumed it was the water. I added my tank water in a bucket slowly and shook it around just a little to investigate for hitchhikers. Upon placement, in my tank, a few started to open but this white film is very obvious, and many of the zoas are covered and won't open up. I know this question has been asked before, but I am a little lost on where to start or what to do to make sure I do not kill at of them by some extreme intervention. I do not have any "reef" specific dips yet but will certainly be buying some asap, and not buying from my LFS a nymore. Any advice is appreciated as I am pretty worried and do like this little frag.

 

[sbash]

Oh yeah, they do not look very happy.

I had a contaminated zoa frag once, and I did not dip it before introducing it into my tank. It had some sort of fungus that attacked my other zoas and my candycanes... Anyway, I ran them through two courses of Furan 2 in a hospital tank and that fixed them up.

 

[kyleinpdx]

A few things, first off if you want to be successful in this hobby long term you'll want to get some Bayer Advanced complete insect killer for Soil and Turf Concentrate the silver labeled bottle with Imidacloprid - 0.72% Beta-cyfluthrin - 0.36%. Unfortunately pests dont come off with a brisk shaking. This will prevent most negative hitchhikers from making their way into your display.

Now for your Zoas, I personally would pull the rock, put it in some fresh saltwater of the same temp and salinity, then take a soft bristled toothbrush and remove as much of the fungus/web/sponge like material and any casings and other material from around the polyps. Physiologically zoas are pretty hardy, dont scrub so hard that you rip them apart but you dont need to be to ginger with them either.

Then I'd recommend a peroxide dip, see #5 here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dipping-zoanthairans.40552/

Then I'd do a Furan2 dip, #4 in the same link above.

They'll be ticked for a few days, but the above has proven to be most effective for me when combating various zoa maladies.

 

[A. grandis]

Those rocks came probably straight from the ocean, didn't they?

No dips!
No fresh water!
If you do any dips/fresh water you will increase the contamination and possibly loose the whole thing!!
Do water changes instead, removing carefully those "fungus" looking webs syphoning them out.
Some of polyps are already pretty damaged by the infestation and you'll need to cut off the dead/bad smelling ones with a sharp fine knife with the rocks out of the tank.
Good gloves, goggles and a shut mouth!
Do not get your hands cut or exposed to the polyps!!!! Gloves, gloves, gloves!!!
Basically everything (zoas) that smells bad is rotten and should be removed!

Make sure temperature is around 78°F - 79°F and constant slow flow.
Blow a little bit of Lugol's solution on them with pumps off, leave it for like 5 minutes right before doing the water changes.
You can repeat this water change ritual every day until they get better.
Make sure you don't leave any decaying polyp in that tank!
Stop the water changes when they start to look better.

No dips! No fresh water! Please!

Pray!
Grandis.

 

[olivia]

Those rocks came probably straight from the ocean, didn't they?

No dips!
No fresh water!
If you do any dips/fresh water you will increase the contamination and possibly loose the whole thing!!
Do water changes instead, removing carefully those "fungus" looking webs syphoning them out.
Some of polyps are already pretty damaged by the infestation and you'll need to cut off the dead/bad smelling ones with a sharp fine knife with the rocks out of the tank.
Good gloves, goggles and a shut mouth!
Do not get your hands cut or exposed to the polyps!!!! Gloves, gloves, gloves!!!
Basically everything (zoas) that smells bad is rotten and should be removed!

Make sure temperature is around 78°F - 79°F and constant slow flow.
Blow a little bit of Lugol's solution on them with pumps off, leave it for like 5 minutes right before doing the water changes.
You can repeat this water change ritual every day until they get better.
Make sure you don't leave any decaying polyp in that tank!
Stop the water changes when they start to look better.

No dips! No fresh water! Please!

Pray!
Grandis.

Well, the rocks came from my LFS' frag tank, from there I don't know where they came from. The fungus (??) spread a lot overnight. I just bought Furan-2, not sure where to find Lugols.
If it is a fungus why would Furan-2 not work? If I do cut some off, how should I tell which ones? (It is hard to say specifically which ones smell off.) My tuxedo urchin bulldozed the zoas and is wearing a few. Should I be concerned?

I am not really sure what to do with this different advice! Should I just take off the ones that are okay?

Also, I just found a crab in it (wonderful), and manually removed it. (I don't think the crab made it.)

 

[kyleinpdx]

Well, the rocks came from my LFS' frag tank, from there I don't know where they came from. The fungus (??) spread a lot overnight. I just bought Furan-2, not sure where to find Lugols.
If it is a fungus why would Furan-2 not work? If I do cut some off, how should I tell which ones? (It is hard to say specifically which ones smell off.) My tuxedo urchin bulldozed the zoas and is wearing a few. Should I be concerned?

I am not really sure what to do with this different advice! Should I just take off the ones that are okay?

Also, I just found a crab in it (wonderful), and manually removed it. (I don't think the crab made it.)

I know A. grandis has been around here for a long time and is well respected but his advice in this instance is counter to what's been successful for me. Doesn't mean his method won't work, or that it would be more or less effective than mine. I can only speak to what I've done. Personally, my philosophy is to intervene any time there is something in my tank that might transfer or cause harm to the other organisms. If you lose the Zoas it'll be a bummer sure, if you lose 50% of your other livestock, it'll be a disaster.

 

[olivia]

I know A. grandis has been around here for a long time and is well respected but his advice in this instance is counter to what's been successful for me. Doesn't mean his method won't work, or that it would be more or less effective than mine. I can only speak to what I've done. Personally, my philosophy is to intervene any time there is something in my tank that might transfer or cause harm to the other organisms. If you lose the Zoas it'll be a bummer sure, if you lose 50% of your other livestock, it'll be a disaster.

I was actually just about to respond to your post as I have been spending the day mixing up some water and buying some products to treat. (Searching for Furan.) Seeing as how I had the crab I will be more cautious in the future about adding something to the tank without a good enough source or dip.

Thanks for your advice and your respectful response as I am sure everyone has a method that works best for them. I am new still need to find mine, hence my post asking for help.

Will peroxide then Furan-2 together be too harsh or would it be needed with this method? Also, should I dip in new saltwater between if I do?

 

[kyleinpdx]

I was actually just about to respond to your post as I have been spending the day mixing up some water and buying some products to treat. (Searching for Furan.) Seeing as how I had the crab I will be more cautious in the future about adding something to the tank without a good enough source or dip.

Thanks for your advice and your respectful response as I am sure everyone has a method that works best for them. I am new still need to find mine, hence my post asking for help.

Will peroxide then Furan-2 together be too harsh or would it be needed with this method? Also, should I dip in new saltwater between if I do?

Anytime, happy to help. In my experience both peroxide and furan2 are fairly noninvasive. And yes, I would recommend a 1:10 - 1:4 mix of peroxide (the standard 3% stuff from the drugstore) then rinse in saltwater, then the furan2.

Take a look over that link I posted earlier, there are also tons of threads here on r2r regarding peroxide, furan2, dips, etc.

 

[sbash]

I am not really sure what to do with this different advice! Should I just take off the ones that are okay?

This is one of the biggest challenges in the hobby. Since we do not have a Coral Doctor to go to, nor the time or equipment to do swabs and cultures; any treatment you do is a shot in the dark, or at least dim lighting.

You are right, if this is a fungus, Furan will do nothing. However, if what you are seeing is a bacterial reaction, then Furan is a good bet. If you feel like experimenting, and have the equipment, time and money, then set up a hospital tank for Furan, one for an anti-fungal, and one for the other methods mentioned.

That said, time is likely running out. Pick something and do it. Better have taken action than not.

Also, if you can, set up a QT and frag (carefully) the healthy polyps...

 

[A. grandis]

The reason why I don't suggest any dips in this case is because the zoas are attached to a live rock, not a plug.
I do not recommend dipping live rocks in any type of medicine nor fresh water.
Because if the whole tank crashes it will be my fault.
Good luck, my friends..

Grandis.

 

[tupes]

Me personally I'd throw away the rock. I wouldn't want to risk anything else in my tank. Not sure what else you have but it's not worth it to me. Id take the loss.

 

[olivia]

Me personally I'd throw away the rock. I wouldn't want to risk anything else in my tank. Not sure what else you have but it's not worth it to me. Id take the loss.

The reason why I don't suggest any dips in this case is because the zoas are attached to a live rock, not a plug.
I do not recommend dipping live rocks in any type of medicine nor fresh water.
Because if the whole tank crashes it will be my fault.
Good luck, my friends..

Grandis.

Me personally I'd throw away the rock. I wouldn't want to risk anything else in my tank. Not sure what else you have but it's not worth it to me. Id take the loss.

The fungus (for lack of better understanding what it is I guess), started to spread to my live rock so I took it out and placed it in a bucket of saltwater I mixed this morning. As I took it out it made a hell out of a mess of my tank, so I have now done a water change, and probably need to do a few more. I have saltwater, buckets, googles, live rock, sponges, anti-fungal, peroxide, toothbrushes, and more. I would like to save what I can, but I am not comfortable with putting this whole piece back into my tank yet.

 

[A. grandis]

The fungus (for lack of better understanding what it is I guess), started to spread to my live rock so I took it out and placed it in a bucket of saltwater I mixed this morning. As I took it out it made a hell out of a mess of my tank, so I have now done a water change, and probably need to do a few more. I have saltwater, buckets, googles, live rock, sponges, anti-fungal, peroxide, toothbrushes, and more. I would like to save what I can, but I am not comfortable with putting this whole piece back into my tank yet.

Hummm...
So what are you deciding to do? Time is running...
To return to the store and get a refund?
Perhaps they would be nice and help you with that...
At least a store credit, so you could get plugs and not a rock with that white stuff on them...
You would be able to threat plugs with dips... Not live rocks..
I'm sorry for the trouble you're having...
Let me know if I can try to help you more after you decide what you want to do...

Grandis.

 

[olivia]

Hummm...
So what are you deciding to do? Time is running...
To return to the store and get a refund?
Perhaps they would be nice and help you with that...
At least a store credit, so you could get plugs and not a rock with that white stuff on them...
You would be able to treat plugs with dips... Not live rocks..
I'm sorry for the trouble you're having...
Let me know if I can try to help you more after you decide what you want to do...

Grandis.

Thanks for your response and help. I have been dealing trying to make medicated food for some dwarf puffers to eat which has been a heck of a time.

Transferred the zoa rock to a bucket and I was planning to scrub it off. Would this work? My LFS will likely not let me exchange. (I exchanged a aiptasia covered coral for this one, without realizing the damage.)

Oh now I understand the issue I think. As it is literally on live rock anytime it goes back in the tank it will then later create an issue? I apologize for my lack of understanding as I am new to corals.

These zoas do look really nice, though I will not place them back in the tank without treating them, QT, or ensuring they won't crash everything. Could I take the healthy ones off and place on a plug, (I do not have one but would need to buy it), or could I set up a bare-bones quarantine tank? I have buckets for mixing, an extra pump, saltwater I am mixing, a heater etc. (The zoa rock in the bucket really smells pretty horrific. Will not be buying any corals from this place again.)

 

[olivia]

Hummm...
So what are you deciding to do? Time is running...
To return to the store and get a refund?
Perhaps they would be nice and help you with that...
At least a store credit, so you could get plugs and not a rock with that white stuff on them...
You would be able to threat plugs with dips... Not live rocks..
I'm sorry for the trouble you're having...
Let me know if I can try to help you more after you decide what you want to do...

Grandis.

Alright, I am trying to scrub here but keep needing to take a minute. The smell is becomeing unbareable. I am certainly seeking any advice. Would scubbing outside be better for some ventilation? (Or am I just over-reacting to this stench?)

 

[kyleinpdx]

Whatever helps you get the job done would be my suggestion, perhaps a fan to ventilate your work area? I’m always hesitant to do any fragging or other work anywhere but my designated work bench. Every other time I’ve made a mistake and been too far from a tool, towel, fresh saltwater, etc but I’m sure you could make it work.

I’m interested in the smell, sometimes perfectly healthy “stuff” can have a bit of a funk, organic matter tends to smell, however if it’s as pungent as you’re describing it’s probably decay/necrotic and you’d want to try and prevent it from entering back into your tank/water column.

How do things look after cleaning it up a bit?

 

[rock_lobster]

I can assure that rock and zoas are loaded with pests. I wouldn't buy a whole rock like that but if I did I would shave off the zoanthids dip them, glue them to plugs and then place them in quarantine. The rock would get sterilized.

 

[olivia]

Whatever helps you get the job done would be my suggestion, perhaps a fan to ventilate your work area? I’m always hesitant to do any fragging or other work anywhere but my designated work bench. Every other time I’ve made a mistake and been too far from a tool, towel, fresh saltwater, etc but I’m sure you could make it work.

I’m interested in the smell, sometimes perfectly healthy “stuff” can have a bit of a funk, organic matter tends to smell, however if it’s as pungent as you’re describing it’s probably decay/necrotic and you’d want to try and prevent it from entering back into your tank/water column.

How do things look after cleaning it up a bit?

I can assure that rock and zoas are loaded with pests. I wouldn't buy a whole rock like that but if I did I would shave off the zoanthids dip them, glue them to plugs and then place them in quarantine. The rock would get sterilized.

Funk would be putting it nicely. This is wrapping a shirt around my face to get the job done bad. Things looks dirty just from brushing. Wow, won't be buying like this again!

Can quarantine the zoanthids in a bucket with a pump and heater only until I can get a proper QT setup? If I cut any of the zoas off I do not have anything to adhere them with unless I can find something here or somewhere open at 2am, wouldn't I need to glue them to a plug asap?

 

[A. grandis]

Thanks for your response and help. I have been dealing trying to make medicated food for some dwarf puffers to eat which has been a heck of a time.

Transferred the zoa rock to a bucket and I was planning to scrub it off. Would this work? My LFS will likely not let me exchange. (I exchanged a aiptasia covered coral for this one, without realizing the damage.)

Oh now I understand the issue I think. As it is literally on live rock anytime it goes back in the tank it will then later create an issue? I apologize for my lack of understanding as I am new to corals.

These zoas do look really nice, though I will not place them back in the tank without treating them, QT, or ensuring they won't crash everything. Could I take the healthy ones off and place on a plug, (I do not have one but would need to buy it), or could I set up a bare-bones quarantine tank? I have buckets for mixing, an extra pump, saltwater I am mixing, a heater etc. (The zoa rock in the bucket really smells pretty horrific. Will not be buying any corals from this place again.)

I'm sorry for the delay answering.. I'm kinda busy around here..
If the smell is already so strong chances are that most of the zoas are lost and it would be dangerous for you to deal with that rock.
For the lack of you really understanding the whole deal with reefs, and specially zoanthids, and because there is a risk of contamination for your system by the pathogen and danger of manipulating rotten water/zoanthids (strong dangerous toxins = palytoxin and breathing close to it) in an advance stage of deterioration, I would just give up on this. I don't want to be responsible for any safety matter. I'm sorry, but the 2 things are kinda scary and you are just starting. Not worthy!! I recommend throw way the rock in a double bag. Please use gloves.
Next time look very well to see if there is anything wrong with the polyps and buy them on plugs.
That way it's easier to dip and threat pests and diseases.
Nite nite...

Grandis.

 

[olivia]

I'm sorry for the delay answering.. I'm kinda busy around here..
If the smell is already so strong chances are that most of the zoas are lost and it would be dangerous for you to deal with that rock.
For the lack of you really understanding the whole deal with reefs, and specially zoanthids, and because there is a risk of contamination for your system by the pathogen and danger of manipulating rotten water/zoanthids (strong dangerous toxins = palytoxin and breathing close to it) in an advance stage of deterioration, I would just give up on this. I don't want to be responsible for any safety matter. I'm sorry, but the 2 things are kinda scary and you are just starting. Not worthy!! I recommend throw way the rock in a double bag. Please use gloves.
Next time look very well to see if there is anything wrong with the polyps and buy them on plugs.
That way it's easier to dip and threat pests and diseases.
Nite nite...

Grandis.

No worries, and thanks for your help. I am aware of the concerns with zoanthids and palytoxin and have been handling with care and cleaning with gloves and goggles, as I knew some of them were falling off.

I appreciate your help, though am not ready to give up these guys just yet. I have a door to work outside, gloves, goggles, and a vendetta against my LFS. I have four hours to work with here until it will be time to wake up and start my day so I will give this my dang best.

Edit: ^It changed "dang best" to dang best