Acro tip burn and fading

AquaBiomics · Apr 3, 2020

markalot said:
Keep in mind that acros can show visible damage weeks after the incident happened. You say Alk is now 9, but you lowered it to 8 with water changes. That's enough to do it if things are not stable and Acros are not in top health. Lowering Alk is one thing, but 8 to 9 can to a lot of damage. In my experience, 6 to 7 raised quickly does almost nothing, 7 to 8 shows stress, 8 to 9 shows damage. In my opinion 8 is better than 9, and 7 is best yet, but it's up to you what to run at, just make sure it stays rock solid steady, especially since your acros are now suffering.

CO2 scrubber should not be causing any issues other than raising PH, which is not the issue in this case. In my opinion.

This is such a good point. And I think it causes a lot of the difficulties diagnosing coral problems.

The health we see today is probably the result of conditions in our tanks about 2-3 weeks ago. Without incredibly detailed notes, it can be so hard to figure out what caused the problem when there is a built in time lag of 2-3 weeks between cause and effect with Acros.

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 24, 2020

Did either of you figure out the issue? I have the same issue & very similar parameters. After 2 months sps tips & base outer ring starts to stn.
I did like the comment about carbon & will remove my reactor?
Would like to know if either of you are growing sticks?
Thanks

ocncheffy · Oct 26, 2020

I had this exact same issue, and in my case it turned out to be inaccurate/bad alkalinity test kits. My alk was reading at a 5.8 when it was actually at an 8, so naturally I tried to bring it up to correct the problem. My alk probably hit an 11-12 by the time I realized what was going on. Once I lowered it down to a nice 8.5 with a verified test kit, things got better and my SPS healed. I did trim the dead tips whenever I saw them however...

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 26, 2020

ocncheffy said:
I had this exact same issue, and in my case it turned out to be inaccurate/bad alkalinity test kits. My alk was reading at a 5.8 when it was actually at an 8, so naturally I tried to bring it up to correct the problem. My alk probably hit an 11-12 by the time I realized what was going on. Once I lowered it down to a nice 8.5 with a verified test kit, things got better and my SPS healed. I did trim the dead tips whenever I saw them however...

Thank you! Ironically I just bought a refill for my hanna alk test kit. I will compare the reading of my current alk test kit (aquaforest) to see.
I can post what I find here to keep replying coming. Thanks again!

kruler · Oct 26, 2020

OP and others having this issue: what salt are you using?

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 26, 2020

kruler said:
OP and others having this issue: what salt are you using?

Aquaforest probiotic, 10% WC weekly. My alk is dead at 8, very stable.
The last 3-4 months I have been making sure my n03 & p04 are stable & ok .05 & 5 (I does aquaforest bacteria to maintain)
I added the last sps while I have been maintaining n03 & p04, still tip & base burn

ocncheffy · Oct 27, 2020

Curious, when was the last time you verified your salinity or calibrated your refractometer?

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 27, 2020

ocncheffy said:
Curious, when was the last time you verified your salinity or calibrated your refractometer?

My refractometer is pretty old, I last calibrated it a month ago & it was still spot on.
I also compared my AF alk test with Hanna alk test, very similar. AF 8. Hanna 8.3

I was thinking on my rodi I replaced the 3 canisters recently but not the di (top small canister) in a long time?

Thanks for the reply's and help!
I would like to think my water quality is good, but I must be missing something. My oldest equipment, skimmer & 2 wave makers 2-3 years? I do not see rust when cleaning?
Seneye, 320 par to top of rock. 2 1200gph WaveMaker on random at 90%

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 27, 2020

1 more peice of important info,
I guess my tank is 10 months old, as per mu photos, I filled it up december 22 2019.

Could it be too new? I have a lot of fish, lps & zoas, nps are doing great.

ScottB · Oct 27, 2020

Unstoppable algae! said:
1 more peice of important info,
I guess my tank is 10 months old, as per mu photos, I filled it up december 22 2019.

Could it be too new? I have a lot of fish, lps & zoas, nps are doing great.

Maturity-wise you are getting pretty close. I am not sure any of us understand fully what is "missing" in a young tank. My favorite speculation is just that age leads to diversity of bacterias and microfauna. This leads to general stability of available nutrient that SPS need -- especially wrt consumable PO4. SPS consume indirectly via the consumption of the bacteria that eat the PO4. Finding the right balance of all these competing organisms relative to food supply takes time.

ryshark · Oct 27, 2020

ryshark · Oct 27, 2020

hatfielj said:
I'm convinced we have the same thing going on with our tanks. My display is unable to support acropora any more without this happening. I have watched every single acro in my tank do this same thing. There were some colonies that I thought were resistant and had not shown signs of disease, now even those are sick. At this point, I'm giving up on acros in my display. I already have a completely separate frag system going and those acros are doing great. Even acros I originally took from my display are now growing and thriving. It's insane. I don't understand it one bit.
It's not just acros that seem to be affected. My moni-caps have not grown much at all since I got them 9 months ago. I have other encrusting monti's that occaisionally look stressed and stop growing. My zoo's and palys grow still. I have a bunch of shrooms that don't seem ill. My LPS are not growing much, but aren't dying back. The whole tank just seems stagnant in terms of growth.
My parameters have been stable. My water quality is really top notch from what I can tell. My RO/DI system is ultra pure. The same salt mix and water is used in my frag tank and display so it can't be that.
I've wondered if it could be some sort of chemical on my hands, but I generally keep my hands out of tank and wear nitrile gloves when feeding. There are times that I have to reach in to do water changes or whatever, but I make sure to rinse my hands and dry them in clean water first. Plus, I would think that all corals would be equally affected in that scenario, not just sps/lps.
I wonder if it's some sort of bacteria or virus, but if that's the case, you would expect my frag tank to be infected too, because I have moved frags there before they showed signs of illness and those frags are thriving and growing like never before. There are frags in my frag tank that literally did not grow even a millimeter in my display in 9 months, that as soon as I moved them they started encrusting and branching within a few weeks time!
This is the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with and I have no idea what it is. I'm completely stumped. I'm actually seriously contemplating starting over with this tank or setting up a new display elsewhere in my house and using this one as a FOWLR. My fish are fat and happy at least. I'm going to give it another month or so to see if things settle down once I remove the last few pieces of acros.

This post above is crazy, maybe some tanks are doomed for failure. Did you ever figure out what was in (or not in) one tank compared to the other?

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 28, 2020

[QUOTE="ScottB, post: 8134028, member: My favorite speculation is just that age leads to diversity of bacterias and microfauna. This leads to general stability of available nutrient that SPS
[/QUOTE]
Thats actually a great point, I did cycle with dry rock & dry sand adding bacteria. (My full time frag/ quarantine tank cycled with live rock & grew coral line way faster)

Maybe ill wait 2 months and try again

ScottB · Oct 28, 2020

hatfielj said:
I'm convinced we have the same thing going on with our tanks. My display is unable to support acropora any more without this happening. I have watched every single acro in my tank do this same thing. There were some colonies that I thought were resistant and had not shown signs of disease, now even those are sick. At this point, I'm giving up on acros in my display. I already have a completely separate frag system going and those acros are doing great. Even acros I originally took from my display are now growing and thriving. It's insane. I don't understand it one bit.
It's not just acros that seem to be affected. My moni-caps have not grown much at all since I got them 9 months ago. I have other encrusting monti's that occaisionally look stressed and stop growing. My zoo's and palys grow still. I have a bunch of shrooms that don't seem ill. My LPS are not growing much, but aren't dying back. The whole tank just seems stagnant in terms of growth.
My parameters have been stable. My water quality is really top notch from what I can tell. My RO/DI system is ultra pure. The same salt mix and water is used in my frag tank and display so it can't be that.
I've wondered if it could be some sort of chemical on my hands, but I generally keep my hands out of tank and wear nitrile gloves when feeding. There are times that I have to reach in to do water changes or whatever, but I make sure to rinse my hands and dry them in clean water first. Plus, I would think that all corals would be equally affected in that scenario, not just sps/lps.
I wonder if it's some sort of bacteria or virus, but if that's the case, you would expect my frag tank to be infected too, because I have moved frags there before they showed signs of illness and those frags are thriving and growing like never before. There are frags in my frag tank that literally did not grow even a millimeter in my display in 9 months, that as soon as I moved them they started encrusting and branching within a few weeks time!
This is the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with and I have no idea what it is. I'm completely stumped. I'm actually seriously contemplating starting over with this tank or setting up a new display elsewhere in my house and using this one as a FOWLR. My fish are fat and happy at least. I'm going to give it another month or so to see if things settle down once I remove the last few pieces of acros.

I hear your frustration. Some ideas to consider:
1) When I see something "off" with my SPS (or LPS for that matter) I send off an ICP right away. This rules in/out a few things. a) my trace stuff is OK b) no metals leaching in from dodgy equipment/magnets c) my own test kits are calibrated and accurate. I sleep better for a few months.

2) Shrooms & palys. I just don't trust them anymore with acropora. Same with toadstools. Whenever they get the slightest bit stressed/disturbed/manhandled I FEEL LIKE they release crap into the water. They always win any sustained physical contact with neighbors. I KNOW that to be true. So I am done with all of those along with bubbletips for the same reason.

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 28, 2020

ScottB thanks again for the information. Hopefully in a few months I will try again with better success.

I have an open compartment in my sump, would it be worthwhile adding liverock & a powered (to suspend detritus?)

Hate to say but dry cycle was a waist, I already have hitchhikers Algea, everything lol & I have been quarantining...

ScottB · Oct 28, 2020

Unstoppable algae! said:
ScottB thanks again for the information. Hopefully in a few months I will try again with better success.

I have an open compartment in my sump, would it be worthwhile adding liverock & a powered (to suspend detritus?)

Hate to say but dry cycle was a waist, I already have hitchhikers Algea, everything lol & I have been quarantining...

Yeah, like I said you gotta be getting close at 10 months.

Yes, I am a huge fan of live rock. I have not bought from the Florida shippers but they all get pretty good reviews. Especially the ones that ship fully immersed. But the shipping price is tough. IMO opinion it shortens the maturation phase by half or more. It also helps avoid or recover from dinoflagellates. I've tried going without live rock, but it is too much trouble.

In my own tanks and the handful of high end reef systems I have built for others, I try to build with at least half live rock that I pull from my LFS coral sump systems. Fewer nuisances are harbored there, but all the bacteria comes with it. If that is possible for you, I highly recommend it.

And yes, like you, despite my best efforts I have to manage or eradicate pests, aiptasia, flatworms, etc. Each of them have predators, thankfully.

Unstoppable algae! · Oct 28, 2020

I try to build with at least half live rock that I pull from my LFS coral sump systems. Fewer nuisances are harbored there, but all the bacteria comes with it. If that is possible for you, I highly recommend it.

Will do, LFS after work for some live rock!
Thanks again for your time, ill repost in a few months with good or bad news lol!

BryanMatthew · Feb 14, 2021

Hi, i think i have the exact same issue here. Actually i own a reef store so i have multiple display tanks at the store. All tanks are doing well (sps and lps). I have one tank at home, its quite new (around a year old), all sps that i put will have burn tips after 2 or 3 weeks. I am just confused and discouraged. I know all params are good. There is just something that keeps causing this burn tips event. Scenario is always the same. Put sps in, looked good, burn tips after 2 or 3 weeks, and then died. So i keep on thinking and tracking what is the cause or the difference between this tank and the tanks at my store, the only difference i can think of is at around 3pm, my tank at home got like direct sunlight, while all of my tanks at the store never got sunlight. Could this be the cause? Or is it some kind of bacteria or virus that only attacks sps?

How about you guys who experience this event, does your tank got any direct sunlight from the window?

vetteguy53081 · Feb 14, 2021

BryanMatthew said:
Hi, i think i have the exact same issue here. Actually i own a reef store so i have multiple display tanks at the store. All tanks are doing well (sps and lps). I have one tank at home, its quite new (around a year old), all sps that i put will have burn tips after 2 or 3 weeks. I am just confused and discouraged. I know all params are good. There is just something that keeps causing this burn tips event. Scenario is always the same. Put sps in, looked good, burn tips after 2 or 3 weeks, and then died. So i keep on thinking and tracking what is the cause or the difference between this tank and the tanks at my store, the only difference i can think of is at around 3pm, my tank at home got like direct sunlight, while all of my tanks at the store never got sunlight. Could this be the cause? Or is it some kind of bacteria or virus that only attacks sps?

How about you guys who experience this event, does your tank got any direct sunlight from the window?

One thing from direct sunlight besides algae potential is changes in tank temperature from the sunlight

BryanMatthew · Feb 15, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
One thing from direct sunlight besides algae potential is changes in tank temperature from the sunlight

Temp is stable because i use chiller for that tank, and algae is also in control (a bit of algae on the glass), that is why i am so confused with whats happening in that tank.