Malcontent
Valuable Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2018
- Messages
- 1,117
- Reaction score
- 1,090
The digital thing is a red herring. You don't need a supersensitive electronic "eye" to read the ammonia alert badge when it's that freaking dark.
Ammonia Pegged at 8.0 After 50% Water Change, Nitrate 10ppm, What's is happening!
- Thread starter bstone026
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Biglew11
Valuable Member
Hannas amonia reading method.
Api test kit method of measuring ammonia
The API AMMONIA TEST KIT is a mercury-free, salicylate test for fresh and saltwater fish, and measures ammonia levels from 0 to 8 ppm.
Sounds like pretty similar chemistry to me. Enough that the same chemical compounds would affect both test.
| Method | Adaptation of the Salicylate Method. The reaction between Ammonia and Ammonium and the reagent causes a blue‑green tint in the sample. |
Api test kit method of measuring ammonia
The API AMMONIA TEST KIT is a mercury-free, salicylate test for fresh and saltwater fish, and measures ammonia levels from 0 to 8 ppm.
Sounds like pretty similar chemistry to me. Enough that the same chemical compounds would affect both test.
Dan just wrote that 8 ppm nh4 won’t be lethal.
why then are we freaking out over .05 nh3 as for sure lethal? We agree that’s what the color is within that pic.
which side of the rule fence will best fit the thread title
*it’s one degree darker than no concern, admitted. That’s what makes for good contention reading between panic cycle stallers and ‘there are no stalled cycles in reefing‘ folks (folk, singular lol)
I saw where amquel was added. I know that doesn’t matter to anyone here but the same variables keep popping up over and over in false stall posts and all I can do is log the patterns, consider outliers, and still be certain if given full control over this reef remotely there would be no trouble getting it in line.
we could clean out the no smell, rotten filter to ensure it’s not pumping 8 ppm a day of ammonia as claimed
we could do a water change
we could stop testing, fallow out this tank correctly per Jays forum, qt the fish at minimum as observation and all issues would stop
why then are we freaking out over .05 nh3 as for sure lethal? We agree that’s what the color is within that pic.
which side of the rule fence will best fit the thread title
*it’s one degree darker than no concern, admitted. That’s what makes for good contention reading between panic cycle stallers and ‘there are no stalled cycles in reefing‘ folks (folk, singular lol)
I saw where amquel was added. I know that doesn’t matter to anyone here but the same variables keep popping up over and over in false stall posts and all I can do is log the patterns, consider outliers, and still be certain if given full control over this reef remotely there would be no trouble getting it in line.
we could clean out the no smell, rotten filter to ensure it’s not pumping 8 ppm a day of ammonia as claimed
we could do a water change
we could stop testing, fallow out this tank correctly per Jays forum, qt the fish at minimum as observation and all issues would stop
I thought that Lew, Cell and Brian wrote really well and maintained patience admirably through this troubleshoot. Thanks for summary heads up Lew.
Im going back to re read Dan and T’s supporting info that the tanks cycle ability has been overcome, see if I missed anything.
Im going back to re read Dan and T’s supporting info that the tanks cycle ability has been overcome, see if I missed anything.
Biglew11
Valuable Member
8ppm of nh4 is certainly not leathal, and op has done alot to keep the nh3 content down, lowered salinity. Lower ph. And it should have been advised if it wasn't to lower the temperature some. It is fish only so we don't have to worry about coral. But at 8ppm nh4 the nh3 is certainly likely at toxic levels that still need to be addressed.
cdnco2004
Well-Known Member
I had a bunch of Ammonia issues a few months back, or what I thought were ammonia issues. Brandon kept saying it was not Ammonia and to just throw my API ammonia test kit in the garbage and ignore my Ammonia numbers. I too was in a panic mode. I had 3 SW tanks going only one showed Ammonia issues the rest were good. I would do water changes even 80% water changes and not get any change in my Ammonia numbers. They were not near as bad as yours. I got the free ammonia seecham badge tester it showed everything was fin. No Ammonia issue. As I have read more since then and saw how when I STOPPED focusing on Ammonia and I did in fact put some trust or faith that he may be right and I ignored Ammonia. I had fish dying CUC dying. I was convinced it had to be Ammonia. I got it all settled out after like 2 weeks. I have not tested Ammonia since then the fish stopped dying off. Since then I have read a lot more about Ammonia in these systems and Brandon is right. I think I spent 3 days trying to ignore him saying to ignore my Ammonia. I had fish dying my Ammonia was high as a kite, it HAD to be Ammonia right.... Nope.... Something else that was giving a false Ammonia reading from my API tester. If your Ammonia levels really were that high, your fish all would have been dead already.
cdnco2004
Well-Known Member
So Brandon, the one thing that keeps annoying me about your comments is that this is not a Reef system. No coral. Its a Macro Algae FOWLR.You have been great about posting tank pics as needed, appreciate that. Being able to see the fish everyday not having trouble breathing is a big deal in diagnostics
Disease from skipping preps = some but not all fish may have labored breathing while no other symptoms show in the display from corals or clean up crews/ non fish animals
Ammonia issue: all fish die in a day after all fish hover at the very top, easily spotted in pics, because gills were burned. No corals open, water a hazy mess, that's ammonia issues.
What does your pics show given those two extremes (ammonia noncontrol causes extremes / an animal with no liver can't filter ammonia, that animal shows extreme behavior)
This here is symptomless ammonia control claims - that can't happen. Your tank would be all dead if what you're staying was true
I can't believe nobody took my proof bounty lol
Ok forty bucks for an ump here to show prior work on a verified 9 month cycle break. I'll keep raising the $ bar to show there's no meat in the one off findings in this thread. You don't need cycling bac in a nine month reef
Go get a digital meter like the article above uses.
bstone026
Active Member
I want to thank everyone for there advice and help with this roller-coaster ride, It's been fun lol. But yeah my fish bounced back to life almost as quick as I could get that cool sweet 0.0ppm nothing but salt water in there. I have one last question then I will rap this up. Now with all these water changes calcium is probably barely there and ph needs to be raised plus everything else that's low. A large portion of my plants require calcium and ph at the very least. Would going ahead and raising those some set me back too much? I am at about 1.00ppm ammonia with the tank 2/3 full so once I add another 15G it should drop to at least 0.50ppm.
So that rock stack doesn’t look like it can carry corals is that right
it looks atypical to every reef you’ve seen?
surface area was the point, appreciate the insight.
when I say display reef, the fact this one doesnt have corals does not change one iota of the rule of surface area + current + nine months time + daily fish carry. If you add four euphyllias it’s a reef proper, noted, but that won’t change the status of ammonia control in this tank.
his opening tank pic could not be picked out by any reader here as a problem tank in a pic lineup, if not associated with an ammonia alert post. That’s how it always happens.
regarding ammonia tracing, factored with any sincere reading of pattern threads we collect in tanks that look exactly like this one, this reef has enough surface area to carry any bioload we want.
you can have a spike of ammonia if something really bad happens we learn on page one and not guess at by page ten
but you can’t have that much rock + circulation + surface area failing to keep ammonia under control for days, there’s no link for that posted here. I’ve never seen any link or study permitting that.
it looks atypical to every reef you’ve seen?
surface area was the point, appreciate the insight.
when I say display reef, the fact this one doesnt have corals does not change one iota of the rule of surface area + current + nine months time + daily fish carry. If you add four euphyllias it’s a reef proper, noted, but that won’t change the status of ammonia control in this tank.
his opening tank pic could not be picked out by any reader here as a problem tank in a pic lineup, if not associated with an ammonia alert post. That’s how it always happens.
regarding ammonia tracing, factored with any sincere reading of pattern threads we collect in tanks that look exactly like this one, this reef has enough surface area to carry any bioload we want.
you can have a spike of ammonia if something really bad happens we learn on page one and not guess at by page ten
but you can’t have that much rock + circulation + surface area failing to keep ammonia under control for days, there’s no link for that posted here. I’ve never seen any link or study permitting that.
Last edited:
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
What’s your salinity? Proper salinity and salt mix will contain proper calcium levels.
Any pH additive will also add alkalinity. If your alkalinity is low, you can dose it up with the “ph boosters” or carbonate (soda ash). I’d be cautious of raising pH until you are positive this ammonia fiasco is handled.
I’ve asked several times for an updated tank pic Brian
can we get one please, to contrast with opening pic
its a nice tie in between the problem phase of your tank, and the resolution phase here. We always want tank pics in any cycle analysis thread, before and afters, it’s critical to a final tie in of the data offered here as param measures.
can we get one please, to contrast with opening pic
its a nice tie in between the problem phase of your tank, and the resolution phase here. We always want tank pics in any cycle analysis thread, before and afters, it’s critical to a final tie in of the data offered here as param measures.
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
You will see an awesome tank because the OP handled the situation beautifully with a lot of water changes, NOT because he did “nothing” which was your advice.
That’s fine
closing pic please, worlds easiest request for help efforts given. We collect before during and after pics in our study thread. such a low value request ought to be easy to fulfill here / quick smart phone snap. Just a pic of the tank, to see if it’s looked the exact same this entire thread
closing pic please, worlds easiest request for help efforts given. We collect before during and after pics in our study thread. such a low value request ought to be easy to fulfill here / quick smart phone snap. Just a pic of the tank, to see if it’s looked the exact same this entire thread
Last edited:
bstone026
Active Member
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
I personally like to keep my salt around 1.025 - 1.026 because all the major and minor ions will be in the ideal range of the salt mix.
It’s highly unlikely that your water contains low calcium if maintained at normal salinity. You can always do a calcium test it you’re concerned.
Bstone appreciate your willingness to exchange data in your ammonia challenge post. You were willing to post pics and provide feedback as requested from a lot of folks. You posted multi kit measurements and had quite the cycle challenge thread that’s for sure. Not a boring read. Thank you.
cdnco2004
Well-Known Member
Dude, he has had fish loss. He has had fish die. He is seeing fish with red gills. At the start of this I was agreeing with you but then I saw OP post a lot more details. I think Ammonia is playing an issue here. But for it to b staying this high for this long there would have to be a crap ton of dead material that is still in the tank.
Why have the livestock not been moved into QT and the Algae to try to find the source of the ammonia issue (assuming thats what it is)?
Similar threads
