Ammonia Pegged at 8.0 After 50% Water Change, Nitrate 10ppm, What's is happening!

[bstone026]

Okay I have a question but let me update you first, I had a Rusty Dwarf Angel die last night and my firefish blenny is just sort of sitting on the bottom since yesterday morning, I do believe you are knowledgeable so can you tell me what kind of ammonia test I should be using, I mean there has to be an alternative in the market. And I agree with you that my bio cycle is not in sync with the aquarium. I just wish I knew what through it off in the first place, by that I mean I shouldn't have a dead Angel and a Sick Blenny. I don't want you to think i am just your regular newbie. Ive had aquariums of some sort for 25 years and saltwater for probably a little over 15 years. I enjoy your advice and trust your opinion, what has me so rattled is in all those 25 years I have never had the type of situation if I may call it that.

 

[Garf]

Okay I have a question but let me update you first, I had a Rusty Dwarf Angel die last night and my firefish blenny is just sort of sitting on the bottom since yesterday morning, I do believe you are knowledgeable so can you tell me what kind of ammonia test I should be using, I mean there has to be an alternative in the market. And I agree with you that my bio cycle is not in sync with the aquarium. I just wish I knew what through it off in the first place, by that I mean I shouldn't have a dead Angel and a Sick Blenny. I don't want you to think i am just your regular newbie. Ive had aquariums of some sort for 25 years and saltwater for probably a little over 15 years. I enjoy your advice and trust your opinion, what has me so rattled is in all those 25 years I have never had the type of situation if I may call it that.

What’s your pH at? Lowering it will have the effect of making ammonia less toxic. Even turning your lights out may have this effect, until your salt turns up.

Edit - I’d probably put the algae in another tank, so you don’t kill it and make things worse, however.

 

[bstone026]

yeah learned that so I have not raised it since the water changes. 7.8ppm

 

[Garf]

yeah learned that so I have not raised it since the water changes. 7.8ppm

Can you get this, pronto;

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/#17

 

[brandon429]

" I had a Rusty Dwarf Angel die last night and my firefish blenny is just sort of sitting on the bottom since yesterday morning"



this is caused not by ammonia, or your whole tank will die in 48 hours.

its caused by skipping all manner of Jays disease preps in the disease forum, literally 100% skipped. nearly all reefers do this; hence the busy times in the respective forums.


Here's why your tank can't have an ammonia spike sustained (though this was already posted sub linked in the other proof thread)

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...

www.reef2reef.com

after reading that thread, it's not possible for anyone on this post to think this tank above has days long ammonia noncontrol.


you can see by taking 20 mins to read the post that ANY stocked and running reef tank rectifies added liquid ammonia in 5 mins.



not days, minutes, with the right meter of course.

 

[brandon429]

confusing cycling issues with disease prep issues is the exact negative impact of old cycling science vs new in the hobby.


it causes thousands of fish to be wasted annually, as tank owners ignore the 100% documented loss cause forum, and instead opt to blame fish loss on the 0% documented forum, which is any cycling forum. folks dont lose fish during cycling, they lose them about eight months after.

Im going back to read how old this tank is.

 

[brandon429]

Your tank was 3 months old, in march


are we not spot on track for a disease outbreak or what, going off easily inspected tank ages in the disease forum

This is a perfect post for an ammonia fear thread which is false, and it's the peers driving it, not the OP.

 

[bstone026]

I live pretty far from a fish store, My 2 bags of instant ocean arrive in the morning. My fear is if I do a 80% or around that water change the ammonia will come right back. See I was running the tank between 1.025-1.024 and I took out a few gallons and added fresh OR water and the 8.0ppm came down to close to 4.0ppm now it's back up to 8.0ppm again. Did my bio media collapse on me is it the macro algae causing this, Though algae usually is good for a tank at removing nitrates and such. This tank was fully cycled it's at least 8 months old my other tank is about 3 months old. I have a theory when I recently put some new plants in the tank a lot of the leaves got buried because there was no other way to get them planted to start rooting, but even that I do not think would cause this crazy non stop ammonia. I am reading all of your post, and I ordered a couple bottles of Nitrifying bacteria just in case. If you were me would would you do to stop this ammonia cycle? I mean everybody has there own opinion, And just so you know this system runs of 2 canister filters with tons of Matrix, purigen,carbon and Fluval clearmax. salinity is currently sitting at 1.021 after adding gallons of RO water

 

[bstone026]

I live pretty far from a fish store, My 2 bags of instant ocean arrive in the morning. My fear is if I do a 80% or around that water change the ammonia will come right back. See I was running the tank between 1.025-1.024 and I took out a few gallons and added fresh OR water and the 8.0ppm came down to close to 4.0ppm now it's back up to 8.0ppm again. Did my bio media collapse on me is it the macro algae causing this, Though algae usually is good for a tank at removing nitrates and such. This tank was fully cycled it's at least 8 months old my other tank is about 3 months old. I have a theory when I recently put some new plants in the tank a lot of the leaves got buried because there was no other way to get them planted to start rooting, but even that I do not think would cause this crazy non stop ammonia. I am reading all of your post, and I ordered a couple bottles of Nitrifying bacteria just in case. If you were me would would you do to stop this ammonia cycle? I mean everybody has there own opinion, And just so you know this system runs of 2 canister filters with tons of Matrix, purigen,carbon and Fluval clearmax. salinity is currently sitting at 1.021 after adding gallons of RO water

Here are a few pics from today to see how the tank is fairing, I think my starfish is also dying now, and he is a hardy Florida common starfish. I swear I am going back to freshwater tanks if I lose these fish. I don't understand or know exactly why the ammonia will not come down I mean my bio filteration should be handling this. I am truly at a lose and depressed that I will not find the core problem. Even when I do the big saltwater change tomorrow that is just a band aid, it does not solve this problem.

 

[brandon429]

This tank which is in full working order will slowly be taken down soon, amazing to watch fear take over

You'll be taking the most unfounded reactions we've seen in studying false stall posts

Look at threads of people losing starfish here (have you read what's been linked to you? The ammonia dosing thread where full reefs oxidize ammonia in five minutes?)

Starfish are hard to maintain, they die due to lack of feeding, not free ammonia.

Your poor system, you're focusing on the wrong issue, not too good of an outlook is pending here due to heels dug in that your cycle is broken, after eight months of running. I tried to help, it's being ignored, you can tell i work these challenges routinely and know just fine where your system is at/ heed advice that comes from big threads

First it's sick fish as proof, then we discuss disease forum timing and it becomes the starfish as proof. If you continue resisting updated cycling science: you will disassemble and take down this perfectly normal reef by November out of sheer free ammonia madness.

Stop testing for ammonia. Manage fish disease as you've been shown

Remove your starfish, not that you can tell by looking at it if it's dying, but they're advanced feeding animals and this tank isn't managed in a way that advanced feeders should be in it, not until you adhere to updated cycling science so you can let go of the false focus.

 

[brandon429]

Final offer before your tank pays the ultimate price for subscribing to old cycling science: reach out to Randy, have him tell you whether or not an 8 month fully stocked reef with fish swimming normally everyday can lose control of ammonia automatically, with zero cause, requiring you to take down the system as it runs normally everyday and looks great in pictures.

 

[Miami Reef]

Just stop testing ammonia. It’s not high at all.

If your ammonia was that high you entire tank would be dead.

 

[Garf]

Just stop testing ammonia. It’s not high at all.

If your ammonia was that high you entire tank would be dead.

Not necessarily, that’s hype that some folks would have you believe. It ain’t good though;

 

[Miami Reef]

Not necessarily, that’s hype that some folks would have you believe. It ain’t good though;

I’d believe an ammonia reading if it was with a seachem alert badge.

Not with an API kit. Do you know how much ammonia macro algae consume? Lots.

 

[Miami Reef]

@bstone026

Can you pick this up from the LFS?

You just stick it to the inside of the tank (in the water). It will give you highly accurate 24/7 ammonia readings. I think we need to settle this because a lot of people are worried in this thread.

 

[Garf]

I’d believe an ammonia reading if it was with a seachem alert badge.

Not with an API kit. Do you know how much ammonia macro algae consume? Lots.

Read post #37, he has one that’s reading high.

Increasing the pH to say 8.3, would take the NH3 over lethal levels, if it’s true. This must be avoided, just in case;

 

[Biglew11]

I'm not saying free amonia is his problem, but it appears he has multiple test showing free amonia in his system. Someone else has said that copper can cause errors in amonia test.

My question to @brandon429 is if a fully cycled tank can process amonia so fast why can it show up in such a high concentration and show such a decrease with a water change.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’d dose this product.

Fritz is really good. I highly recommend it.

 

[Miami Reef]

Are you seeing any die off with the algae you added?

If you aren’t using RO/DI water, you could be adding ammonia as well.

 

[reef_1]

Do what Miami_reef says and get the seachem ammonia badge, its a good way to doublecheck ammonia.

If the ph is 7.8 and temps are not high it is possible for fish to live for some time in high ammonia water, lets say 4ppm can be below 0.2 free ammonia, that is still quite a lot, but not enough to kill fish overnight.

Depending on actual ph/temp levels I could actually imagine a similar outcome, fish is lethargic around lets say 0.1-0.2 free ammonia and then starts dieing eventually or maybe when free ammonia spikes.

There were also other signs like fish not eating and lethargic and then feeling better when water has been changed.

I kind of trust OPs observation with the water change and improved behavior as he also spotted fish is lethargic days before first death.

When salt arrives and you then do a big water change measure all values and if ammonia or whatever it measures goes from zero to hero on both seachem badge and API and fish initially feels well, but later worse then I would think something is leeching something into the water. Ammonia or whatever. Then this thing needs to be found and removed.

Brandon might be right maybe API is wrong - thats why pls get the seachem badge - but at least now after fish deaths he should admit his "do nothing" advice in his first post, first line, ignoring behavior changes etc was dumb.