Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[nick9one1]

First off, I recommend using brightwell spongexcel because it has detailed dosing guide, until you know how your system uses Silica. Then you can freestyle with more potent solutions.

To answer your Q...
I don't know what percent your super-concentrated Si source is. Nor what 100% Si could mean because I don't think pure silica would be a bottled liquid. Anyway.
Do a 2.0 part per million dilution of whatever is in the bottle.
1.00mL of the bottle into 1000mL distilled water and stir (1 part per thousand)
get new syringe and do 2.00mL of the 1 part per thousand and add it to 1000mL distilled water (2 ppm of whatever is in the bottle).
Then test it with the hanna Low Range Silica meter It'll read up to 2.00ppm SiO2. If the bottle was somehow pure SiO2, you'd read at the max of the meter, 2.00. If it's 50% SiO2 you'll read 1.00ppm if it's 10%, you'd read 0.20ppm etc.

Thanks for this. I got 1ppm using the above method using a salifert kit. So the sodium silicate I have is pretty close to what I had estimated (40%).

 

[Kennya]

Kennya said:
Anyway Microscope arrived today and here's a pic and video below - think it is amphidinium if someone could confirm please. This sample was from the gravel but a scraping from the back wall also showed the same.


indeed, a small-cell amphidinium dino.
[/QUOTE]

@taricha thanks for the if, wasn't sure id small or large cell. Thought this thread might be more appropriate now and have to say what incredible mine of info this and the other dino threads are .

If I've understood from these threads then these are toxic and also enter the water column. Would make sense as my snails do seem a bit more lethargic - I started running GAC a couple of days back just in case. If these suckers enter the water column can they be sorted with a UV? and if so do you need to encourage them to enter the water column or do they do this during dark?

My Phosphate is now sitting at .05ppm and Nitrates 10ppm possibly slightly higher. Reasonable at this level?

I've got some SpogExcel on order (not the easiest thing to find in the UK) so can try building diatoms as well.

Think I've covered what I need to do above?
Thanks again

Edit - looking through all of the images I took I found this lurking in the corner Ostreopsis?

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

the 2 times a day stiring has helped greatly along with new mp40 settings my sand is cleaner than its been in over a year I also have been changing filter sock every 3 days I will continue to stir the sand twice a day for a while they go dormant and hope they eventually get eradicated

 

[Kennya]

Kennya said:
Anyway Microscope arrived today and here's a pic and video below - think it is amphidinium if someone could confirm please. This sample was from the gravel but a scraping from the back wall also showed the same.


indeed, a small-cell amphidinium dino.

@taricha thanks for the if, wasn't sure id small or large cell. Thought this thread might be more appropriate now and have to say what incredible mine of info this and the other dino threads are .

If I've understood from these threads then these are toxic and also enter the water column. Would make sense as my snails do seem a bit more lethargic - I started running GAC a couple of days back just in case. If these suckers enter the water column can they be sorted with a UV? and if so do you need to encourage them to enter the water column or do they do this during dark?

My Phosphate is now sitting at .05ppm and Nitrates 10ppm possibly slightly higher. Reasonable at this level?

I've got some SpogExcel on order (not the easiest thing to find in the UK) so can try building diatoms as well.

Think I've covered what I need to do above?
Thanks again

Edit - looking through all of the images I took I found this lurking in the corner Ostreopsis?


[/QUOTE]
@taricha not sure if you missed this but could do with confirmation my understanding and strategy is correct and also the id on the ostreopsis. Thanks

 

[Idoc]

@taricha thanks for the if, wasn't sure id small or large cell. Thought this thread might be more appropriate now and have to say what incredible mine of info this and the other dino threads are .

If I've understood from these threads then these are toxic and also enter the water column. Would make sense as my snails do seem a bit more lethargic - I started running GAC a couple of days back just in case. If these suckers enter the water column can they be sorted with a UV? and if so do you need to encourage them to enter the water column or do they do this during dark?

My Phosphate is now sitting at .05ppm and Nitrates 10ppm possibly slightly higher. Reasonable at this level?

I've got some SpogExcel on order (not the easiest thing to find in the UK) so can try building diatoms as well.

Think I've covered what I need to do above?
Thanks again

Edit - looking through all of the images I took I found this lurking in the corner Ostreopsis?

@taricha not sure if you missed this but could do with confirmation my understanding and strategy is correct and also the id on the ostreopsis. Thanks
[/QUOTE]

That's definitely an Ostreopsis dino in that picture. The treatments are similar in elevating nitrates/ phosphates in order to have other things out compete them. These do go into the water column in the evenings. Many people have had very good success eradicating them with a UV sterilizer pulling from the main tank rather than pulling from the sump.

Another thing to consider is increasing your biodiversity... regular addition of nitrifying bacteria (ie...MicroBacter7, etc...) and adding pods to the system.

 

[Kennya]

@taricha not sure if you missed this but could do with confirmation my understanding and strategy is correct and also the id on the ostreopsis. Thanks

That's definitely an Ostreopsis dino in that picture. The treatments are similar in elevating nitrates/ phosphates in order to have other things out compete them. These do go into the water column in the evenings. Many people have had very good success eradicating them with a UV sterilizer pulling from the main tank rather than pulling from the sump.

Another thing to consider is increasing your biodiversity... regular addition of nitrifying bacteria (ie...MicroBacter7, etc...) and adding pods to the system.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the id and suggestion about the UV, have one arriving tomorrow and was going to sump it, but I'll rethink that now.
Thanks again

 

[merereef]

Hello, i have been battling this strain of dinos for a while too.. i decided to remove the entire sand bed... so they stay have less of a place to populate or stay safe if you will.. the dinos are now on the rocks but im blowing them off everynight.. i have increased my sump turn over to 10x and running uv so uv has more contact with dinos let you know how it goes

 

[merereef]

So i removed the sand 2 days ago... noticed A-dinos growing on the rocks a lot of it... so last night i decided to increase the sump turnover to 10x an hour..
i also decided to up the uv flow so it went from 200LPH to 600LPH..
Then set the wavemakers to full wack but set them up so one side turns on for 15 seconds and turns off followed by the other... i was watching closely and could see that this type of flow kept the detritus suspended longer in the tank enough time for it to go down the overflow so figured this could help with the dino spores too allowing it to be killed by UV. i then blew the rocks of all dino after lights out. Ive just come back from work 24 hours later and guess what... HARDLY any dinos on the rocks... this is the biggest reduction ive seen in dinos this quickly. And my lights were on full blast too like they always are... will keep you updated and let you know

 

[Idoc]

So i removed the sand 2 days ago... noticed A-dinos growing on the rocks a lot of it... so last night i decided to increase the sump turnover to 10x an hour..
i also decided to up the uv flow so it went from 200LPH to 600LPH..
Then set the wavemakers to full wack but set them up so one side turns on for 15 seconds and turns off followed by the other... i was watching closely and could see that this type of flow kept the detritus suspended longer in the tank enough time for it to go down the overflow so figured this could help with the dino spores too allowing it to be killed by UV. i then blew the rocks of all dino after lights out. Ive just come back from work 24 hours later and guess what... HARDLY any dinos on the rocks... this is the biggest reduction ive seen in dinos this quickly. And my lights were on full blast too like they always are... will keep you updated and let you know

Very encouraging...

 

[kngt]

I am looking for some ID. Are these Amphidinium?

Thanks

 

[taricha]

I am looking for some ID. Are these Amphidinium?

Thanks

yep. amphidinium for sure.

 

[taricha]

If I've understood from these threads then these are toxic and also enter the water column. Would make sense as my snails do seem a bit more lethargic - I started running GAC a couple of days back just in case. If these suckers enter the water column can they be sorted with a UV? and if so do you need to encourage them to enter the water column or do they do this during dark?

My Phosphate is now sitting at .05ppm and Nitrates 10ppm possibly slightly higher. Reasonable at this level?

I've got some SpogExcel on order (not the easiest thing to find in the UK) so can try building diatoms as well.

Think I've covered what I need to do above?
Thanks again

yes, small cell amphidinium do go into the water somewhat and can be encouraged to with a short blackout, so UV is worth doing. they also are often somewhat toxic. In these respects, they are more like the other kinds of dinos than like Large cell amphidnium.
Different tanks handle nutrient numbers differently, but you are in the right ballpark. Myself and some others have found 0.10ppm PO4 to be a good target when fighting dinos, but your numbers may work for you.

 

[MickeyCT]

Another update....I returned from my vacation late on Sunday and checked out the tank first thing. Couldn't see through the glass it was so covered so I waited until morning. Glass was covered with diatoms! This was a first, before it was always green with dinos. Once I cleaned the glass, I saw the tank looked better than it had in months. Sand is clean! Yeah!

I plan to continue dosing silica at a reduced level and I'll be keeping my pH higher. While I was away it slipped low again because my doser that was adding kalk at 3 liters a day failed so it wasn't getting any.

 

[Alexreefer]

Another update....I returned from my vacation late on Sunday and checked out the tank first thing. Couldn't see through the glass it was so covered so I waited until morning. Glass was covered with diatoms! This was a first, before it was always green with dinos. Once I cleaned the glass, I saw the tank looked better than it had in months. Sand is clean! Yeah!

I plan to continue dosing silica at a reduced level and I'll be keeping my pH higher. While I was away it slipped low again because my doser that was adding kalk at 3 liters a day failed so it wasn't getting any.

Do you believe dosing silicates worked the best out of any other approach? What else did you do that you believed helped? Also what kind of dinos did you have?

 

[MickeyCT]

I'm not sure if it was dosing silica or the higher pH because I did both at the same time. I highly recommend reading Randy's article on dinos and pH I referenced previously. I had the Amphidinium dinos.

Over the last 18 months or so I've tried a number of different things as the nature of the problem changed. It always seemed that solving one problem resulted in another. Started with bubble algae and some cyano. Tried the Vibrant regime which initial worked on the bubble algae but the cyano got much worse and the Vibrant killed my brittle star (it's legs got "eaten" away so only the disc was left). Then the cyano got really bad so I did more research and read all the threads about cyano. After testing to determine whether it was mostly cyano or spirolina and found mostly cyano, I tried H2O2 which initially helped but caused a lot of crazing on my skimmer and sump - that goodness I didn't have an acrylic tank. Improvement didn't last long and found the cyano had shifted now to mostly spirulina which is sensitive to Chemi-Clean. Again seemed to work great but didn't last. All through this process I had also done several 3 day blackouts which sometimes seemed to help but not always.

I always waited a few weeks before doing anything else. In a way, I kept just hoping things would go away on their own. When I couldn't stand it any more I went back to the forums for research.

Bottom line is the stuff covering my sand always came back. Apparently it wasn't always the same thing. I believe that each of these treatments worked on a particular problem which then allowed something else to take over.

At this point I've been home for 5 days and tank still looks great so I'm crossing my fingers. I have never run a low nutrient tank, but my nitrates and phosphates right now are pretty high (nitrates over 50 and phosphate over the range of my Hanna checker ) and I haven't done water changes in two months (per advice in this thread) while I was battling these dinos. I plan to get back to regular water changes and get my tank back in balance and hopefully keep it there.

BTW my tank does not have any other algae issues (knock wood).

Now it's time to replenish my clean-up crew. I had been hesitant to replace anything while the dinos were taking over.

 

[Hobby Sci]

Can someone confirm this is in fact amphidinium? I have a 2-3” sand bed... am I screwed

 

[Kennya]

yes, small cell amphidinium do go into the water somewhat and can be encouraged to with a short blackout, so UV is worth doing. they also are often somewhat toxic. In these respects, they are more like the other kinds of dinos than like Large cell amphidnium.
Different tanks handle nutrient numbers differently, but you are in the right ballpark. Myself and some others have found 0.10ppm PO4 to be a good target when fighting dinos, but your numbers may work for you.

Thanks for this. When you say short blackouts what length 48hrs?

 

[taricha]

Thanks for this. When you say short blackouts what length 48hrs?

Yes 48hr or less. I'm trying to distinguish from the blackouts of 3 days which are commonly used and meant to kill off photosynthetic stuff. We're just trying to make them go into the water to find a better place (and meet UV instead).

 

[Kennya]

Yes 48hr or less. I'm trying to distinguish from the blackouts of 3 days which are commonly used and meant to kill off photosynthetic stuff. We're just trying to make them go into the water to find a better place (and meet UV instead).

Got it thanks, makes sense

 

[merereef]

I just beat this dino within 3 days of starting the cruz arias elegence corals method.. i am on day 5 today no dinos in sight whatsoever...amazinggg only thing that worked for me so far, ive even added the sand back in during the treatment and still no dinos best result ive seen in months