Anecdote vs. reality

[MnFish1]

So I was sitting here thinking about some 'maxims' - that are promulgated here often - and wondered - whether they make sense.

Note - I'm not criticizing or discounting anecdote - that said - I wonder about some common sayings in the reefing community (which are usually supported by anecdote - as compared to 'research' or 'science':

1. Dry rock will not provide the proper diversity for a functioning reef tank (if you have another version - post it)
2. Ich and other parasites (Algae,aptasia, etc included) are easily eradicable by QT
3. Nothing good happens fast (Can we start up a tank with bacteria in a bottle?)
4. The risk of medication (prophylactic)is worse than the risk of QT
5. Its possible to create an immune tank by feeding parasites and bacteria to the fish
6. Tangs (as compared to other fish) need larger tanks - and some types shouldn't be kept

For my self - and my personal experience - I don't believe any of these maxims. Yet - there is lots of anecdote here and on other sites - that suggest that all of these are gospel. Just curious -How many of these are supported with any type of 'fact' - in addition to anectdote - any comments? I created a poll - leave your comments below - IF YOU DISAGREE with a maxim

 

[Justfebreezeit]

I agree with the tangs need more room. They do swim a ton.

 

[SMSREEF]

Many different ways to be successful. And not everyone has the same experience when implementing one of these maxims.

I do think all the statements have some merit... but not enough for me to say I agree 100% with any of them.

 

[MnFish1]

Many different ways to be successful. And not everyone has the same experience when implementing one of these maxims.

I do think all the statements have some merit... but not enough for me to say I agree 100% with any of them.

Right - there is no 'right or wrong' just a discussion

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

These are not anecdotes. Anecdotes are stories of a real person or event. An anecdote is always "reality".

What you have listed would best be described as tenets, core beliefs, or guiding principles.

As such, these are loaded questions as they are often opinion based and subject to people emotions. There is evidence on both sides of these arguments but it often comes down to what people believe.

All of these topics have been discussed ad nausea. This sounds like one of those "convince me" threads. Especially the tittle... "anecdote or reality".. those are the two choices?

People will do what they believe is the best for them, regardless of facts, evidence, or popular opinion.

Dont believe me? See how many people still think garlic, ich be gone, or any other reef safe treatment will eliminate ich in their tanks... or those that think ich is in "every aquarium".

 

[Sashaka]

I'm finding it hard to decide. Some of the choices are too inclusive...for me. For example, do I pick "Feeding bacteria and parasites to fish allows them to maintain/create immunity" because I do believe there is real merit in this statement and I do feed vitamins and probiotics, or do I not pick it because I also believe an immune system can fail when the fish is bombarded for too long by a pathogen, weakening the immunity, and/or the fish gets stressed (power outage, introduction of a new fish that turns out to be a bully, etc.), also weakening an immune system?

 

[MnFish1]

Its discussion - not argument - As I said - Maxims (which to me equates to tenets , core beliefs, etc) - this is not to create one of those 'debate threads' - which go on an on -it was to see 'who agrees with these 'maxims' - and if not - why. no more no less

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

1. It can be done. Bacteria in a bottle is very usefull for adding diversity.
2. Yes. QT is easy but you have to be strict.
3. The truest statement in the hobby.
4. Absolutely false.. ask someone that lost whole tank to velvet.
5. Not based on science, no.
6. Tangs need lots of space and solid QT.

 

[DSC reef]

#6 I don't agree with. Never QT'd a fish ever, kept a purple in a 75 for over 10 years and other tangs I've raised are now in bigger tanks thriving and no QT. IMO, there are no absolutes in this hobby and many ways to reef. A problem I see is judgment being passed if others run their tank different from a varying opinion. I'm not condoning a tang in a 10 gallon by any means.

 

[MnFish1]

These are not anecdotes. Anecdotes are stories of a real person or event. An anecdote is always "reality".

These are statements - that are often defended by anecdote - that was the point. But I agree

 

[Smprc]

The only thing that happens fast is death when uronema strikes..ugh!!! Otherwise I agree...patience.

 

[ca1ore]

I don’t agree with any of them. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby, but bad things do .... plus you put fast in scare quotes. None of the others are true. The risk of medication can be worse than an observational QT in some cases but not in others. Tangs are no more requiring of space than other large grazers. The rest are just silly.

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t agree with any of them. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby, but bad things do .... plus you put fast in scare quotes. None of the others are true. The risk of medication can be worse than an observational QT in some cases but not in others. Tangs are no more requiring of space than other large grazers. The rest are just silly.

you're right -it should've read 'nothing good in this hobby happens 'fast'- and 'fast was Put in quotes - because everyone's idea of 'fast' means something different

 

[brandon429]

I do and advise doing very fast:

Skip cycle setups, like what they use for marine convention reefs so nobody has to wait thirty days with rotten shrimp to be able to house an anemone worth twelve thousand dollars. We use that same approach for moving homes, they want a fast reef not a slow one/ drawn out recycle prevention.

So, it turns out we're allowed to set up full running reefs very fast.


From the same action set, it's recommended anyone with a reef of fifty gallons or less (arbitrary volume equal to one brute drain for water holding) instantly/ with gusto/ rip clean your entire reef top to bottom in order to beat cyanobacteria. Vs adding meds, allowing a takeover, smothering corals for five months, by this time tomorrow you can be back in control of your tank

That means we can fix cyanobacteria issues for 50% of the hobby, fast. That's a large swath


Am aware hardly anyone agrees with fast tank cleans to beat invasions, but until other big cyano work threads exist to show before/ after pics using other means, the rip cleaning thread already documenting the work will stand as a document of doing things fast in large reefs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

These are not anecdotes. Anecdotes are stories of a real person or event. An anecdote is always "reality".

What you have listed would best be described as tenets, core beliefs, or guiding principles.

I agree about the term anecdotes, but I wouldn’t give the statements the implication of widespread acceptance those other words imply. I’d just call them opinions.

 

[ca1ore]

The whole dry versus live rock debate is an interesting one. I set my current tank up with rock from the prior tank plus a few new dry pieces. Even though most of that rock was bacteria live, much of it originates from my very first tank in 1987 .... and spent four years behind my shed during a hobby hiatus. So, essentially my current system is based on non-live rock and is quite capable of supporting the system. Bio diversity, as it were, comes from the corals added subsequently, plus I also used to add quite a lot of the crud that collected in the live rock bins of my LFS.

I do miss the fresh liverock that was common in the hobby 20 years ago, though that had its challenges .... not the least of which was that much of the biodiversity didn’t survive the collecting and shipping process (thus the need to cure it in stinking barrels).

 

[MnFish1]

This was designed to generate discussion.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hey,

Left out my favorite. Every clown is a ticking time bomb because they are carry velvet and/or brook.

 

[MnFish1]

so a poll was posted-PARTLY IN JEST want now to hearabout the problems.methodology with this poll

 

[ScottR]

So I was sitting here thinking about some 'maxims' - that are promulgated here often - and wondered - whether they make sense.

Note - I'm not criticizing or discounting anecdote - that said - I wonder about some common sayings in the reefing community (which are usually supported by anecdote - as compared to 'research' or 'science':

1. Dry rock will not provide the proper diversity for a functioning reef tank (if you have another version - post it)
2. Ich and other parasites (Algae,aptasia, etc included) are easily eradicable by QT
3. Nothing good happens fast (Can we start up a tank with bacteria in a bottle?)
4. The risk of medication (prophylactic)is worse than the risk of QT
5. Its possible to create an immune tank by feeding parasites and bacteria to the fish
6. Tangs (as compared to other fish) need larger tanks - and some types shouldn't be kept

For my self - and my personal experience - I don't believe any of these maxims. Yet - there is lots of anecdote here and on other sites - that suggest that all of these are gospel. Just curious -How many of these are supported with any type of 'fact' - in addition to anectdote - any comments? I created a poll - leave your comments below - IF YOU DISAGREE with a maxim

There are people I personally know that think by putting fish and corals in QT for a certain period of time eradicates disease. This would be a QT with no medication of any sort. I guess their thinking is, they may have come from a diseased tank and by putting them in a clean tank, they magically become disease/pest-free.