Bare bottom cycling

[Sixin]

Hi Reefers,

Cycling a new bare bottom tank 395L with a dr tims fishless cycle, at day 48 of the cycle and ammonia been constantly zero for the last 27 days, apart from the initial dr tims ammonium dose at day 0 and was detectable for about 20 days 0.25ppm on the 2nd day then ranged from 0 to 0.5ppm with a spike on day 5 of 1.5ppm then from there its gone gradually gone to zero around day 20 on a salifert kits just milky cloudy water now

Nitrites been stuck at 0.5ppm since day 20 with 4 spikes on days 20,27,47,48 to 1.0ppm but last few weeks every day nearly has been 0.5ppm at day 38 chagpt said to try and give it a shunt/bump so dosed more dr tims ammonia at 0.5ppm the tank consumed it all by the next day (24hrs) but nitrites still stuck at 0.5ppm since ORP been at 285 now with a peak of 300 for a couple weeks,
day 47 and 48 nitrites seem to have crept up but it might be just my eyes misinterpreting the pink colour its a smidge darker than the 0.5ppm of the chart so would say somewhere in between 0.5 to 0.75pmm 1.0 at the absolute highest- I'm leaning towards eye and colour fatigue

My question is should i just be waiting it out more for nitrites to get below 0.2ppm to do the 2ppm final ammonia dose for the 24 hour challenge?
or is the tank cycled and do the 2ppm ammonia chloride challenge as thinking the nitrites are just stuck ( testing on salifert kit) the tank is bare bottom but has 135 maxspect bio balls and 4x maxpect nano tech blocks and 4 arka caves (ceramic media) 10 plastic media balls,
running no filtration at the moment while it cycles, currently skimmer on but I'm not taking any skim out just shallow running to increase oxygenation of the water and to run the new skimmer in
tank temp being run at 26 degrees Celsius for the cycle
no water changes either

cheers and thank you

 

[TheSheff]

I'll be honest with you, you're way overthinking this lol. My bare bottom is like 3 months old now, all I did to cycle was throw some cycled rock in, and two clownfish. Cycled within a week. Majority of people have been majorly mislead by all of this hype around fishless cycling. Just don't feed a butt load while it's cycling and you're good!

 

[Subsea]

I can bump this for you. I know nothing about bare bottom tanks. However, I am confused with initial dose of ammonia at 0.5 ppm.

In 55G macro algae grow-out tank, I dose 25ml of ammonia twice a day and nitrate reads zero when I bring it to LFS.

@Sixin
PS: I agree with The Sheff; You are overthinking this.

 

[TheSheff]

I can bump this for you. I know nothing about bare bottom tanks. However, I am confused with initial dose of ammonia at 0.5 ppm.

In 55G macro algae grow-out tank, I dose 25ml of ammonia twice a day and nitrate reads zero when I bring it to LFS.

@Sixin
PS: I agree with The Sheff; You are overthinking this.

If there's one thing I've learned in my 6 years of reefing, it's that simple is usually better lol. I hate that this guy is putting so much effort into something that just doesn't take much.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The nitrate and nitrite is irrelevant other than they are present, indicating that nitrification is happening. If you feel the need to do the "24 hour challenge" then do it, but the tank is cycled and ready to go.

 

[LOZReefer]

I cycled my 150g in 9 days using Dr Tims method - granted, I used live sand and dry rock. You should be good by now I would imagine. Throw a fish or two in there and test ammonia after a day or two; if it's still zero, you're good to go.

 

[fandaga]

Are you going to add fish or corals first, and which fish? The only time I did a fishless cycle with Dr Tim’s method, I lost the first 3-4 fish one after the other in succession: firefish then another firefish, then a fairy wrasse before finally trying a pair of clowns. I lost one of the two clowns. I replaced the one clown and finally have had that pair for several years now. Not saying it was the cycle, could have been other issues, but I’d stick to hardy fish, or even better, easy corals. Better to go really slow and be cautious, IMO. If you get fish, I’d also recommend spending the extra on quarantined ones if you can’t do it yourself. Good luck!

 

[exnisstech]

I'll leave the advice giving to those more qualified than myself.
I just stopped in to say IME the process of cycling a bare bottom tank is no different than cycling a tank with substrate. I currently have 3 BB tanks running and 2 with sand substrate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I'll leave the advice giving to those more qualified than myself.
I just stopped in to say IME the process of cycling a bare bottom tank is no different than cycling a tank with substrate. I currently have 3 BB tanks running and 2 with sand substrate.

Exactly; Nitrifying bacteria are primarily surface-associated. Even a tank without substrate or rock presents plenty of surface area for bacterial colonization, especially in context to early nitrogen cycle establishment.

 

[ShanePike]

What are your nitrate levels? As several have said in this thread, and as RHF has said, if ammonia disappears you're ready for fish. Nitrites don't matter.

More discussion on why nitrites might not be going away:

Help! New tank, really confusing cycle

Help please! New reefer, first tank: 55G, 34salinity, 79degrees, dry rock, wet (live) sand 1" - 2", cannister filter (running), no lights on, no skimmer, no UV. 26 days into cycle. See my chart below. Key points: - I started too slow, then added too much ammonia (my mistake). Two doses of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would make it even more simple and wouldn't worry at all about nitrate levels or bother testing them again in context to cycling. I also wouldn't bother wasting water with a water change in a new system. It is the standard "cycle advice" that really makes little sense unless significant ammonia is present, but if that is the case, then water changes don't equate to a functioning cycle, so still pointless :)

 

[toothybugs]

I'll be honest with you, you're way overthinking this lol. My bare bottom is like 3 months old now, all I did to cycle was throw some cycled rock in, and two clownfish. Cycled within a week. Majority of people have been majorly mislead by all of this hype around fishless cycling. Just don't feed a butt load while it's cycling and you're good!

I did exactly the same thing, only 1 clown - a buddy of mine was asked to take down his 27 cube so I shook the crud out of the rock after taking half his water and left the sand behind, the rock and a bunch of fresh water went into my 60 cube and I never saw more than a little blip.

I've never found a difference between sand and bare bottom systems with regards to cycling.

 

[exnisstech]

Just tossing this out there but many will disagree. I don't own an ammonia or nitrite test kit. Once I see nitrates present I slowly move forward with stocking. I also cycle with household ammonia used for cleaning that has no soap or scents added.

 

[Subsea]

Just tossing this out there but many will disagree. I don't own an ammonia or nitrite test kit. Once I see nitrates present I slowly move forward with stocking. I also cycle with household ammonia used for cleaning that has no soap or scents added.

64 oz cost $9

Austin's 00051 Clear Ammonia Multipurpose Cleaner - 64 Ounce​

• 
  
  

 

[Sixin]

Are you going to add fish or corals first, and which fish? The only time I did a fishless cycle with Dr Tim’s method, I lost the first 3-4 fish one after the other in succession: firefish then another firefish, then a fairy wrasse before finally trying a pair of clowns. I lost one of the two clowns. I replaced the one clown and finally have had that pair for several years now. Not saying it was the cycle, could have been other issues, but I’d stick to hardy fish, or even better, easy corals. Better to go really slow and be cautious, IMO. If you get fish, I’d also recommend spending the extra on quarantined ones if you can’t do it yourself. Good luck!

Hi mate,

i will be adding fish first to see how they go before adding corals, and atm being this time of year isnt many fish available but I'm after a tail spot blenny, yellow eye kole tang, royal gramma, springeri damsel, 2x bengalli cardinals and a sixline wrase but the sixline will be the last to go in then a few inverts like trochus snails and peppermint shrimp

 

[Sixin]

I can bump this for you. I know nothing about bare bottom tanks. However, I am confused with initial dose of ammonia at 0.5 ppm.

In 55G macro algae grow-out tank, I dose 25ml of ammonia twice a day and nitrate reads zero when I bring it to LFS.

@Sixin
PS: I agree with The Sheff; You are overthinking this.

the 0.5 ppm ammonia dose was a bump at day 38 the initial dose at day zero was 2ppm as per dr tims instructions

 

[fandaga]

Hi mate,

i will be adding fish first to see how they go before adding corals, and atm being this time of year isnt many fish available but I'm after a tail spot blenny, yellow eye kole tang, royal gramma, springeri damsel, 2x bengalli cardinals and a sixline wrase but the sixline will be the last to go in then a few inverts like trochus snails and peppermint shrimp

Maybe try one cardinal first? They’re kind of hard to get the sex right until they get larger and can see the bumps on the bottom. I lucked into a male / female pair. Out of that list, I find them pretty robust and don’t bother anything.

As for corals, if you add a super easy coral first like a toadstool leather, you’ll get some additional biome seeding that could help fend off uglies. And the toadstool is pretty bomber. I’ve had several survive all sorts of algae problems. Just a thought…

 

[BeanAnimal]

Wild caught Cardinal's can be rather problematic and have a high morbidity rate. The damselfish is likely the best fit for a hardy starter.

 

[exnisstech]

No need to add a fish to cycle the tank so I wouldn't add any fish that isn't a fish I really wanted. Trying to catch fish later can be challenging.

 

[fandaga]

Wild caught Cardinal's can be rather problematic and have a high morbidity rate. The damselfish is likely the best fit for a hardy starter.

Pretty easy to source them as CB, that’s what I have. Actually several in stock aquacultured online. My male actually has eggs in his mouth at the moment.

But sure damsels are fine too…