BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[ReefRocker]

Absolutely, and on the Apex (don't know for sure on others) it is not just for feeding or shutting things off. You can have an entire sequence of things happen based on that press. As an example, I know people that like to have more than one "viewing mode" for their tank. Sometimes they have a party after the normal light cycle, or sometimes they want to view the tank in a different lighting mode along with the pumps all turned off or turned down so they can do things like top down shots. With the feed modes, the nice thing is that everything goes back to "normal" after a set period of time. So, you could have party-mode that kicks on the lights the way you like them, but in four hours goes back to normal. It is very powerful. Also, in my aquarium, feed mode doesn't turn my pump off, it just turns it down to where it is barely coming out of the pipe since I have an variable speed Abyzz (ApexReady) return pump.

Yep, ProfiLux offers the same functions. We just call it "Maintenance" mode. Not sure why anybody would want to turn on their lights and stress out the fish and coral after-hours just for a party, but hey, it's their tank. :)

Here's a screenshot of the ProfiLux maintenance mode settings:

With ProfiLux you get 4 different maintenance modes which each allow you to customize the behavior of the powerbar outlets, 1-10V interface devices, and Mitras LEDs.

Any 1-10V device which is connected to the ProfiLux can be set to ramp up, down, or turn off whenever a maintenance mode is activated. This includes any 1-10V compatible product such as Tunze pumps, RD3 pumps, Waveline pumps, connected dimmable lights, Abyzz pumps, and even 1-10V Apex ready devices.

The way I have my maintenance mode setup allows me to shut down my return pump, skimmer, ato pump, etc. This mode in particular is set to stay on for up to 2 hours which then turns on by itself if I forget to disable maintenance mode.

Let's say somebody wanted to snap a couple photos, activate a pre-determined light schedule, do a water change, shut down or dim devices, you can do it with Maintenance mode. All of which can be done from the PC, App, Webserver, myGHL, the ProfiLux itself, and the ProfiLux display. Tap a button and that's it!

 

[ReefRocker]

I'll also add that the ProfiLux has the option to add Virtual Sensors to your system. These sensors are essentially duplicates of actual sensors which can be used to assign separate functions to different devices all while using the reading off of one probe.

For example, those with two heaters on their tanks can use Virtual Sensors to allow one heater to turn on normally and have the second heater turn on if for any reason the first heater can't keep up. Any sensor can be easily duplicated and treated as a normal function. Just assign the Virtual Sensor to the designated powerbar socket and that's it.

 

[Rob Lion]

And, a wise friend taught me a saying that I love "I can always go and make more money, I cannot make more time"

umm... sorry to tell you this.... but your friend isn't that wise..... it would take him time to make more money wouldn't it?
Unless of course you can tell me how I can make more money without it costing me time or money... in which case, i'll order my Apex now :)

 

[morpheas]

Not sure why anybody would want to turn on their lights and stress out the fish and coral after-hours just for a party, but hey, it's their tank. :)

We're not talking after hours, say I wake up at 9AM and the lights don't turn on until 10AM, the fish or coral definitely won't mind an extra hour.

 

[Terence]

umm... sorry to tell you this.... but your friend isn't that wise..... it would take him time to make more money wouldn't it?
Unless of course you can tell me how I can make more money without it costing me time or money... in which case, i'll order my Apex now :)

"One word: plastics" [emoji1303]

 

[d2mini]

I said that to say this. I have implemented something similar to feed mode for maintenance (which many many have done out there). With a press of an ON-OFF button I can put the tank on maintenance mode for my water change. The return pump, heater, wave makers, skimmer, growth light and reactor turn off. My cabinet lights turn on. When I'm done and I press the same button everything springs back to life, thus eliminating the risk of forgetting to turn of the heater or pumps or something.

Yep, same thing I explained above with the Profilux. It has feed modes and maintenance modes. My feed modes are set to have the equipment mode come back on automatically, my maintenance modes keeps things in the off position until i hit the button again to turn everything back on. This is old old stuff and something even the most basic controllers should have.

With the higher end controllers, they really all do the same thing.... everything. They just may get from A to B a little differently.
Your choice between apex or profilux or reef angel or whatever really has nothing to do with what the controller can do, because they can do it all and more.
That's why when it came time for me to upgrade from my RKL, I had other qualities I was concerned with and that's what tipped the scales.

 

[DanP-SD]

First a disclaimer: I didn't read through all the digressions in this thread so apologies if I'm repeating anyone but I read the OP as asking what people chose and why and am responding to that.

5 years ago, I set up a 120 sps reef and, for the first time, decided to use a controller. I went with Apex because the programming resonated with me when I read up on code discussions online (which there are a ton of for Apex) and because the hardware looked well built. I was hooked from the start and quickly added breakout boxes, VDMs, an LSM, and more. When new products came out, I gave them a try like the DOS (good product but I've since switched to the Vertex Libra for dosing because I want 3 channels). Overall, I found Apex great. I rarely had to invent my own code since a quick search usually finds what I need. The components work well and are well built. My only complaint was updating firmware was a challenge. (Not so much anymore).

Last year, when building out a new 265 reef, I thought about the Cerebra and GHL but ultimately went with Apex again and expanded on my use - adding WAVs and a bevy of other expansion modules to control everything (except dosing -- I went with three Libras). I was bummed that I installed mine about a week before they announced the new Wifi controller and have yet to upgrade to that but I still feel it's a great product and very reliable. I haven't had any problems with either Apex. I find them easy to program. Fusion is a great interface.

If I have to do it again, I'll go with Apex again. They have the most robust ecosystem with a huge user community (which is a tremendous asset), and history tells me this is a company committed to improving their products and always staying at the forefront in the field. I also like the size of the components, which in my opinion are the most streamlined and easiest to integrate into tight cabinets. The display module fits just about anywhere and fusion makes it easy to use an iPad mini or Amazon Fire as your UI for a nice, clean install.

I have to admit the Cerebra UI has tempted me and I'm a big fan of Vertex's dosing computers, but Apex is so much further ahead of the rest of the pack in terms of accessories and user community that I don't see a switch in my future.

 

[Scott.h]

I don't consider myself a stupid person. I'm thinking that probably holds true to stupid people as well. But I wouldn't even know where to start on building and programming my own controler. If I tried, it would take me a year, twice as much in parts as a store bought controler, and it would end up malfunctioning more then it worked properly. Then I'd throw it away and go buy one.

 

[Terence]

I have to admit the Cerebra UI has tempted

Given your experience with the Apex, I really would like to know what part of the Cerebra interface was more appealing to you? I assume you mean the interface on the unit itself since there really isnt much done yet with an app or cloud interface for it. So what would make that more appealing than the Apex Fusion interface on a tablet? What would you like to see?

I ask this sincerely as it helps me understand the desires of our customers.

 

[vhuang168]

I'll also add that the ProfiLux has the option to add Virtual Sensors to your system. These sensors are essentially duplicates of actual sensors which can be used to assign separate functions to different devices all while using the reading off of one probe.

For example, those with two heaters on their tanks can use Virtual Sensors to allow one heater to turn on normally and have the second heater turn on if for any reason the first heater can't keep up. Any sensor can be easily duplicated and treated as a normal function. Just assign the Virtual Sensor to the designated powerbar socket and that's it.

Just for comparison,
In Apex, all you have to do to use a probe in the programming for an outlet is to call it out.
Eg.
If Temp (or what ever name you have given the probe) < 77 then On
If CaRxPh >7 then Off
etc etc

For programming 2 heaters with 1 as failsafe you don't even have to use advanced mode. Just using the wizard.

Set the on/off Temp for the 1st heater.
Set the on Temp slightly lower than for the 1st heater, set the off either slightly lower than the 1st or same as 1st in case the heater had failed completely.

I have no experience other than an Apex (I actually have 3 units!) and I have barely scratched the surface of what can be done with it. I will be setting up button press actions like doing a WC for eg.

1st RO/DI is pumped into the sump till it hits the float switch/optical level sensor (whenever the Apex ATO is released!). A few minutes is defered to allow the water to mix and most of the diluted water to be sent up into the tank.
A pump will then be turned on for a set amount of time to remove water from the sump. By timing the pump, I can set a certain amount of water is removed.
Then the pump in my NSW container turns on and a solenoid opens allowing NSW to enter the sump till it hits the same float valve/optical valve.
This ensures the same amount of water is replaced and should limit any change in salinity.

I'm also anxiously awaiting the release of the new Flow monitoring module that will allow me to seethe actual flow numbers of the water in my pipes!

So many possibilities!

 

[Dianna Marshall]

I have an apex on my display- but I do not have a dos, yet...I see and read all these great write ups about all the expandability of Apex..but what I don't see is a full display set up of the dos...what else do i need? i don't see where the tubes are going- where are they going? is there some kind of syringe or piston that is filled with Ca, Mg or anything else? Does it come in that mysterious box, do I have to purchase more stuff? you can't find one good instructional STEP BY STEP cd or dvd set up of the dos...Looking at you tube in the hopes of finding something with some "meat on the bones" instructional vid-its just another round of how great and how easy, and I'm tired of stumbling on the "toothless wonders" who say its great and I should get it, too. I will purchase it-, I wish I could win the dos, that would be sweet. But as far as critiquing apex- - d**n, Apex, package an instructional cd or DVD with the product or put one on your website.
My two cents...

 

[vhuang168]

I have an apex on my display- but I do not have a dos, yet...I see and read all these great write ups about all the expandability of Apex..but what I don't see is a full display set up of the dos...what else do i need? i don't see where the tubes are going- where are they going? is there some kind of syringe or piston that is filled with Ca, Mg or anything else? Does it come in that mysterious box, do I have to purchase more stuff? you can't find one good instructional STEP BY STEP cd or dvd set up of the dos...Looking at you tube in the hopes of finding something with some "meat on the bones" instructional vid-its just another round of how great and how easy, and I'm tired of stumbling on the "toothless wonders" who say its great and I should get it, too. I will purchase it-, I wish I could win the dos, that would be sweet. But as far as critiquing apex- - d**n, Apex, package an instructional cd or DVD with the product or put one on your website.
My two cents...

Setting up a DOS is the same as any other dosing setup. The main difference is controlling it will be done through the Apex rather than a screen or /shudder through BT on your computer!

The manual for the DOS can be found on the Neptune website.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/downloads/docs/DOS_manual.pdf

 

[MnFish1]

I have experience with 2 controller The Neptune Apex (2016 orange) version - and the Apex Gold. The Apex Gold has never failed, never had an issue and programming is as simple (or difficult) as a person wants to make it. The New (2016 orange) Apex has not performed well. There were some issues with some of the earlier units (requiring a replacement unit - due to defective memory). This seems to be resolved. However even a quick look at the neptune systems boards there are many reports of poor wi-fi connectivity and random restarts with problems with this unit. Neptune says all of these issues will be fixed with firmware updates in the future - but If I had it to do over again, I would have stuck with the Apex Gold and not the new Apex 2016 model. The support forum is nice - but one issue is that as another person said if you have a problem you have to read through sometimes hundreds of posts to get an answer to a simple question - and its just opinion. One good thing about Neptune is that they do have a good phone support system and the guys are helpful. They do not have a Neptune employee actively managing/correcting the posts on the forum (according to Neptune support).

 

[n2585722]

I use the Archon. One reason is the PWM outputs. I use these with my LED lighting. The Archon head unit comes with 2 ports that can be either pH or ORP. They are independantly selectable. It has an iTemp buss port for the temp probe. It has 2 0-10v ports that have the same output connectors as the APC module. These can be used for pumps or lighting. There are 2 RJ45 connectors each has 2 switch inputs, a 0-10v output and a PWM output. There is a IOE module that takes these and breaks them out to push connectors wich make it easy to use these ports. There are 3 buss ports for attaching strings of modules to the Archon. It has a USB port which at the present is where you attach a memory stick. Some of the files on the memory stick are downloaded to the Archon on bootup. All the graphing data is stored om the memory stick also. It is in a format that can be loaded into excel. The USB port will work with a non powered hub so there is a possibility of expansion here. There is built in wifi so no need to hook to a wired network. In fact the Archon has it own wifi hot spot which is live all the time. You can access the Archon through this and have the same control as over the net. It is compatible with most of the RKE/RKL modules. It is completly web based so it is accessible by a device with a web browser. Most of the time I use the iPad for access when I am home. If not I usually use my phone.

Below is the home page. You can select up to 10 outputs and inputs to display here.

The one below is the alarm screen. I have one alarm triggered so you can see how it shows up. As you can tell you can name all of you alarms to make it easier for you to know what the issue is. This name is also displayed in the email if you have the alarm set to email.

The next screen is of a output. This output is one of the pumps for my auto water change. It is usimg a timer function with 3 seperate timers. This is the pump tha drains water from the sump. You can name the module along with the seperat outputs on the module. The advantage of the Archon is you can use any of the alarms to either turn off or turn on a output. All the alarms that are programmed show and can be used. Multiple oitputs can be controlled by a alarm. A few alarms not shown on the screen that are set for this output are low salinity, high salinity and low fresh salt storage tank. They are below the screen. Also you can see some of the modules show as detatched. These are modules that were connected at one time but are not connected at this time. These were used with a quarantine tank I set up form time to time.

In addition to the 2 PWM outputs on the Archon. I have a AVC module that has 4 outputs that can be configured as either 0-10v, PWM 10v and PWM 5v. These can be configured independently. So you can have a mix if needed. I use all 4 as PWM 5v to make them compatible with my lighting. Instead of making this post any longer I will stop at this point. If there is another screen that you want to see let me know.

 

[mgoesma]

This was a great read thanks, does anyone have recommendations for a new reefer? I'm about 6 months in. I would love to get a controller but I only have about $200 that I can spend without my fiancee deciding not to marry me. Any recommendations? I am looking to be the ability to monitor temp, ph, salinity, and lights. Having Wi-Fi would be cool but wouldn't be a deal breaker. I like the idea of the DIY being that I'm a db programmer by trait but I really don't know anything about developing apps. I really don't want to tackle that at this time. Lol I have enough going on with my tank already. I have looked at the reef keeper and the apex jr. I don't like the apex because of it limitations to expand. Are there any other options? Anyone have an opinion on the reef keeper?

 

[Terence]

I use the Archon. One reason is the PWM outputs. I use these with my LED lighting. The Archon head unit comes with 2 ports that can be either pH or ORP. They are independantly selectable. It has an iTemp buss port for the temp probe. It has 2 0-10v ports that have the same output connectors as the APC module. These can be used for pumps or lighting. There are 2 RJ45 connectors each has 2 switch inputs, a 0-10v output and a PWM output. There is a IOE module that takes these and breaks them out to push connectors wich make it easy to use these ports. There are 3 buss ports for attaching strings of modules to the Archon. It has a USB port which at the present is where you attach a memory stick. Some of the files on the memory stick are downloaded to the Archon on bootup. All the graphing data is stored om the memory stick also. It is in a format that can be loaded into excel. The USB port will work with a non powered hub so there is a possibility of expansion here. There is built in wifi so no need to hook to a wired network. In fact the Archon has it own wifi hot spot which is live all the time. You can access the Archon through this and have the same control as over the net. It is compatible with most of the RKE/RKL modules. It is completly web based so it is accessible by a device with a web browser. Most of the time I use the iPad for access when I am home. If not I usually use my phone.

To help the readers here on this thread, does the Archon have a cloud interface yet that will make it so the customer does not have to do all that crazy and difficult port forwarding, email server set up, etc. if they want outside of the home access? That was the thing that was the big thorn in the side of the Apex until 2014 (If I remember right) - our customers could never figure that out - well at least the non technical ones.

 

[n2585722]

To help the readers here on this thread, does the Archon have a cloud interface yet that will make it so the customer does not have to do all that crazy and difficult port forwarding, email server set up, etc. if they want outside of the home access? That was the thing that was the big thorn in the side of the Apex until 2014 (If I remember right) - our customers could never figure that out - well at least the non technical ones.

The cloud access is not online at this time. So you do have to setup your router and have a ddns service for internet access at this time.

 

[n2585722]

As far as email. The only thing you have to enter is the address or addresses you want the emails sent to. No other setup needed on email.

 

[tjnorthdakota]

I ultimately went with apex because I can easily use it to control multiple tanks via the module and aquabus system, maybe r&d could make a wireless aquabus adaptor instead of running cords though, so I could mount a pm1 and eb4/8 on another tank and just plug a wireless chip into the aquabus of the brain unit like a wireless mouse. Aquabus cords work though as I just run them through the floor and up in another room.

 

[brogers]

Is this even a question? Hands down, Neptune Apex is by far the best option when it comes to Aquarium Controllers.