BRS160 Update 4: Triton Method, here we come! | BRStv

Discussion in 'Bulk Reef Supply' started by randyBRS, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. LobsterOfJustice

    LobsterOfJustice Well-Known Member

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    But the assumption is that all of these parameters matter, and that there are forces at work pushing these parameters towards undesirable levels (wether too high or low). And even if that's the case, I still don't see how sending out a test several times a year and then specifically supplementing each of these elements to "correct" values which may or may not matter is easier than just changing some water every once in a while...

    I guess my issue is, I don't see the problem that we are trying to solve. Everyone has their "reef idols", whose tanks they are trying to emulate... as far as I know, none of the tanks I drool over are individually testing and supplementing cobalt, nickel, vanadium, boron, chromium, sulphate, bromine, etc. Individually testing and supplementing each of these can't possibly be simpler or cheaper and certainly doesn't have the proven track record compared to just changing out some water?
     

  2. LobsterOfJustice

    LobsterOfJustice Well-Known Member

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    If people are having issues with their corals, I'd rather them spend their time looking at their flow, lighting, or alkalinity than wasting time worrying about their vanadium levels. You won't find experienced people with awesome tanks worrying about stuff like that. I do see a use for this system to take already successful tanks "to the next level" when used by experienced reefers, but unfortunately it seems like a bandwagon that people with 0-2 years in the hobby are jumping on.
     
  3. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    I agree stability is king and we do our best to drive that home. If it is working, don't mess with success. However, our educational series really requires us to explore different methods and topics. I certainly hope it is helpful to not just talk about this stuff and regurgitate what the manufacturers tell us but to also demonstrate the results.

    I have personally become pretty interested in water changes roll in reefing. Mostly because when we internally debate methods like Triton I have to ask why am I doing these water changes anyways. With many of today's common approches to reefing they certainly seem to be less critical. The only reason seems to be general unidentifiable contaminants. Nitrate and phosphate just aren't an issue today, odors and yellowing pigments can be handled with 2 bucks in carbon and there are a variety of easy ways to manage trace elements. So I think it is reasonable to question if "general unidentifiable contaminants" is a good enough reason to buy, mix and store saltwater.

    Water changes might be critical but why not explore other options and learn something?

    We removed the rollermat because Trition recommends not using filter socks. Not that it is a replacement for anything, just a component of an overall approach. I personally think the fairly large fuge and network of cheato is going to capture most of the waste particles.

    For what it is worth, we turned the H1200 down to its lowest setting. I get your point and we debated that here but end of the day this is a hobby and using oversize gear is fun sometimes : )
     
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  4. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    There does seem to be a balance here between chasing numbers and looking for signs of general health. Certainly, dont like the concept of chasing numbers but I also have to say that a coral visually looking unhealthy is one of the last signs of mortality and nothing to do with general health. The average reefers ability to identify subtle signs of decreased health is somewhat limited.
     
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  5. JamesP

    JamesP Well-Known Member

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    I'm considering switching to the core7 as a more complete 2 part solution that also supplies trace elements and elevated iron for my fuge. I don't see myself ever getting away from vacuuming my sand monthly so I'll be doing a 10% monthly no matter what as a side effect of vacuuming sand. I'm thinking maybe i can stop my 1% daily continuous water change if i use a more complete 2 part like core7. I did the math and I actually stand to save money vs doing a 1% daily and supplementing brightwell iron if I switch to core7. The 1% daily was for trace replenishment.
     
  6. LobsterOfJustice

    LobsterOfJustice Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I totally get it.

    Agreed :)

    Oh, and you'll have to pry my rollermat out of my cold, dead hands.
     
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  7. JamesP

    JamesP Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the roller mat isn't coming out of my build either. It's ridiculously awesome.

    I remember the brs160 episode where the roller mat was put in and Ryan said he was never doing another build without one. Must be painful pulling it out now in the name of science.
     
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  8. LobsterOfJustice

    LobsterOfJustice Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that's why they used the H1200 lol. "Alright, fine, we can take the rollermat out, but you have to let me play with this $1200 fuge light..."
     
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  9. JamesP

    JamesP Well-Known Member

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    I can understand if the fuge was external and had a really large surface area hanging the light higher up to cover it would mean you need a stronger light. Like one of those big black tubs. For an in sump fuge the h380 is perfect.
     
  10. jasonamyers

    jasonamyers Well-Known Member R2R Supporter MTRCMember Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I'm glad they are showing all of us newer reefers all these systems. I got lucky that 52 weeks of reefing kicked off right when I started my first tank. One of the things I learned from them doing zeofit was to appreciate the little moments spent with the tank each day. I never went zeofit just because they did, because like many others I read this forum and learned that I shouldn't go to a complex system so quickly. There are always gonna be people trying to rush things, but I don't BRS research videos are a leading cause of that.
    I'm fascinated with triton because I like the health check of the testing, but I've been doing their tests while using the Red Sea reef care program which is a super simple system/2part. I won't really change that until I have a chance to see the results from other people. I got super fascinated with Aqua forest, but ultimately experiences of people on here with their salts drove me away.
    I would have never done the reading or thinking with out BRS basically constantly reminding me to think out my ideas throughly before applying them.
    So I loved the remorse that Ryan seemed to be portraying while talking initially about the change, but I'm thankful they are will to prove out things and share so much with us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  11. JamesP

    JamesP Well-Known Member

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    I was trying the red sea method and though I still use the blue bucket salt and their calcium and magnesium test kits, I dropped everything else. Once you start using reef energy, which needs to be refrigerated, and coral colors ,which has the most ridiculous test kits, the simple 2 part red sea method becomes 8 part with an hour or more of testing each week with fish stuff in my fridge. Triton supplements actually sound easier since the trace and major elements are all in 4 bottles and they are all based around 1 test, alkalinity, which you then dose the same amount of each bottle daily. With Hanna all checker, it's a 60 second test. I gotta say, it sounds appealing and actually works out to be cheaper. I'm not sold on the ICP testing, but from a major and trace element perspective this is a game changer for me. And it has the elevated iron for my fuge; win win.
     
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  12. HeadStrongGrafx

    HeadStrongGrafx Well-Known Member Partner Member 2018

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    I like the triton method but have switched to REEFGROW and having MUCH better results!!!
     
  13. jasonamyers

    jasonamyers Well-Known Member R2R Supporter MTRCMember Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I'm with you on the coloration test kits and dosing so very confusing.
     
  14. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    I think this is just a mentality or approach that will be different between each reefer. This is how I would sum up the two.

    Zeovit - Solid method but includes a wide variety of mystery elixir type products and it is not clear what is in all of them. There is a lot of trust here that whatever is in the bottles is both valuable to the tank and won't cause harm. Even though I don't know how every last aspect works nor am I testing for many things the system produced solid results for me and has earned my trust.

    Triton - Match natural seawater parameters to the best of our ability. Requires some additional testing and dosing of every specific elements to achieve that. There is not a lot of mystery here because the basis for the system of emulating natural seawater matches common sence and is very direct about the approach. I have not run a triton tank for any period of time so while the approach seems plausible it hasn't earned my trust yet.
     
  15. Ted Lacey

    Ted Lacey Member R2R Supporter

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    Will be interesting to see what is required to add daily, weekly, and monthly once the lab tests are returned. There are quites a few "blue bottles" with Zeo but seems to be a equal amount of options with the Triton line of products. We will have to wait and see what recommendations are made to keep the system healthy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  16. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    You'll figure it out over time, but IMO there is no shame in running the roller mat with the system. IMO the system still needs a little bit of "out of the box thinking". Depending on how much daily dosing you're doing with the elements (I suspect a lot) you don't have control over the elements for the macro that you are also adding. You obviously wasn't having problems growing chaeto without the system. Also you feed the tank pretty heavy. I personally have never had a problem growing macro, even in a low nutrient environment. At times I feel like my display is trying to turn into a without socks. My fuge is 17% of my display volume and I have to add P and N daily, but for some reason having socks keep the nucense stuff down in the display, despite the numbers being in check - .75/.010. The socks have no bearing on how well my fuge is doing. I've tried both ways. I realize you are doing the system 100% as am I, but just thought I'd throw that out there. If nucense pics up in the display, no shame in running the mat.
     
  17. Scott.h

    Scott.h Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Im surprised at the amount of negitivity being said on the topic. People fear what they don't know. And will justify what they do know because of it. There are more then one way to do things, triton being one of them, but not the only way. At the end of the day, trying something new and learning because of it pushes the hobby further. If it doesn't work long term, lucky for the haters, you'll be able to learn from others mistakes free of charge!
     
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  18. Monkeynaut

    Monkeynaut Well-Known Member

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    How long did you let the plumbing dry before starting the system back up?
     
  19. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    Not sure what they did that day but I just don't want any chemicals in the tank so I always give it the 24 hours.
     
  20. Monkeynaut

    Monkeynaut Well-Known Member

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    What did you actually get flow set at for the tank? I assume it is around a 120 gallon display volume?
    Were you able to get 10 percent display volume water flow through the sump?
     
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