Devoted Reefer 250

pelphrey · Aug 13, 2018

Mallard said:
If you're washing your hands and arms with soap before putting them in the tank, that might be an issue. You should rinse your hands and arms off with hot water to make sure nothing is left on your skin after using the soap. Or skip the soap and use hot water only. You also can use salt as a scrub or BRS sells a reef safe soap. This might not be the problem, but it doesn't hurt to try. If you need to use soap, use something without perfume or fragrance.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-suds-aquarium-safe-hand-soap.html

Awesome, thank you! I've never heard of this stuff!

bubblemytip said:
What time of day are you testing for phosphates and when are you dosing them? How many ppm are you dosing? What is your nitrate level?

As an aside, I would move your DOS to be below your power supplies etc. Any leaks (split tubing etc) could be disastrous.

I do all my testing in the morning, that is also when I dose nitrates and phosphates. Great suggestion on the DOS placement, never crossed my mind. I have complete faith in the systems, until something happens! I may actually move them into the tank stand one day, for now that is the only place they can go. Especially with the battery backup in the cabinet.

powers2001 said:
pelphrey, could you list all your parameters? Everything you can test for? Salinity, temp, ORP, Iodine (if you have the kit), etc.

Salinty - 1.026
Alk - 7.8
Calcium - 450
Magnesium - 1500
Phosphates - o to .05 have to dose phosphates typically. I do feed pellets twice a day with auto feeder and a full frozen cube every evening.
Nitrates - 4 using the high range RedSea test kit.

tenurepro said:
Coral beauty? If you are able to catch and temp relocate him, that would give you an idea if he is stressing out the corals... lights seems good, flow seems good m, water chemistry seems good... maybe it’s time to checkout the tank inhabitants as possible causes?

It would take some creativity to catch him, especially with 2 rock structures cemented together! But I could certainly try. Aside from that I have 2 clowns, kole eye tang, midas blenny, 2 dart fish, 2 royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp, a couple snails, a hermit crab and a halloween crab. But I haven't seen the halloween crab in awhile.

powers2001 · Aug 13, 2018

pelphrey said:
It would take some creativity to catch him, especially with 2 rock structures cemented together! But I could certainly try. Aside from that I have 2 clowns, kole eye tang, midas blenny, 2 dart fish, 2 royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp, a couple snails, a hermit crab and a halloween crab. But I haven't seen the halloween crab in awhile.

You could try one of these traps, I've heard great stuff about them, got one of my own but never used it yet. Good to have on hand and just do a Youtube search on them, find a whole bunch of stuff.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aqua-medic-fish-trap.html

SantaMonica · Aug 13, 2018

Might be something in the N andP dosing. I'd stop dosing. You don't need any measurable N andP.

Mallard · Aug 13, 2018

Also, if you do make changes in dosing, removing fish, reactors, etc. Make sure to do it slowly and try to do one thing at a time. Otherwise, you'll be changing the water chemistry which the SPS won't like and you may not know what the actual issue was. Slow and steady with SPS.

tenurepro · Aug 13, 2018

yeah, i am not suggesting that the fish is the cause - just putting out some ideas; here is what i am thinking
1) light / flow / water chemistry seem in check; Nathan Willard's old reefer 250 was lit by kessils only and he had lots of sps growing... so the light can certainly grow sps. your water parameters are not obviously out of wack... i've seen successful sps tanks run anywhere from 7 to 10 alk. the actual number dosen't seem to matter, but the stability is key. ditto for nitrates and phosphates... i've seen successful SPS systems that are ULNS, but also many that have detectable nitrates and phosphates. Salinity seems in the right range... and you did an ICP like test to rule out possible contaminants. Waterflow seems good based on equipment and tank vids. All of these may be critical for Acro, but i was able to grow a birdnest in my old crappy 30 gal nano with a cannister filter, no skimmer, no dosing, and those cheap US current leds.
2) issue affects both 'hardy' sps like birdnest and more 'challenging' acro. i don't of a pest that may damage both acros and birdnests.
3) you've played around with lights / flow and chemistry, and keep getting the same result..

perhaps its poly munching by the angel, but maybe i am grasping at straws!

pelphrey said:
Awesome, thank you! I've never heard of this stuff!

I do all my testing in the morning, that is also when I dose nitrates and phosphates. Great suggestion on the DOS placement, never crossed my mind. I have complete faith in the systems, until something happens! I may actually move them into the tank stand one day, for now that is the only place they can go. Especially with the battery backup in the cabinet.

Salinty - 1.026
Alk - 7.8
Calcium - 450
Magnesium - 1500
Phosphates - o to .05 have to dose phosphates typically. I do feed pellets twice a day with auto feeder and a full frozen cube every evening.
Nitrates - 4 using the high range RedSea test kit.

It would take some creativity to catch him, especially with 2 rock structures cemented together! But I could certainly try. Aside from that I have 2 clowns, kole eye tang, midas blenny, 2 dart fish, 2 royal gramma, 2 cleaner shrimp, a couple snails, a hermit crab and a halloween crab. But I haven't seen the halloween crab in awhile.

Mallard · Aug 13, 2018

Yeah, the parameters and inputs all look good. You should be able to keep SPS and see them grow. It seems like there is something in the tank that is causing the problems. Send off that ICP test to ensure something isn't really out of whack parameter wise, maybe even a RODI sample as well. But I'd also look for anything or anyone that might be adding something to the tank unknowingly. Cologne/perfume, soap, cleaners, air fresheners, etc that could make it into the air and is pulled in via the skimmer or when hands or equipment is put into the tank. I'd also look at anything DIY that touches the water. I can't remember who, but someone recently on R2R did an ICP test and found high levels of lead in his tank. He was able to narrow it down to the zip ties he was using.

I had a flood issue in my basement earlier this year and then when the plumber came out, he asked if anyone was throwing anything in the toilet that shouldn't be. He gave a story about a household where no one was supposedly throwing those bleach wipes down the toilet until they asked the maid/cleaning lady who said she does it all the time. That was their problem. Ask around the house, observe, and just follow the water to make sure something somehow isn't makings it way in. Double check the equipment for any issues, stray voltage, etc.

powers2001 · Aug 13, 2018

pelphrey, see this video about the difference between "junk food" nutrients like N and P and complex nutrients like carbs, aminos, vitamins, etc.

pelphrey · Aug 13, 2018

powers2001 said:
You could try one of these traps, I've heard great stuff about them, got one of my own but never used it yet. Good to have on hand and just do a Youtube search on them, find a whole bunch of stuff.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aqua-medic-fish-trap.html

Awesome! Thanks, will for sure keep this in mind!

SantaMonica said:
Might be something in the N andP dosing. I'd stop dosing. You don't need any measurable N andP.

Solid suggestion! I can for sure cut the dosing out of my regimen!

Mallard said:
Also, if you do make changes in dosing, removing fish, reactors, etc. Make sure to do it slowly and try to do one thing at a time. Otherwise, you'll be changing the water chemistry which the SPS won't like and you may not know what the actual issue was. Slow and steady with SPS.

I agree with you 100% and I am keeping changes to a minimum and trying to keep track of each change!

tenurepro said:
yeah, i am not suggesting that the fish is the cause - just putting out some ideas; here is what i am thinking
1) light / flow / water chemistry seem in check; Nathan Willard's old reefer 250 was lit by kessils only and he had lots of sps growing... so the light can certainly grow sps. your water parameters are not obviously out of wack... i've seen successful sps tanks run anywhere from 7 to 10 alk. the actual number dosen't seem to matter, but the stability is key. ditto for nitrates and phosphates... i've seen successful SPS systems that are ULNS, but also many that have detectable nitrates and phosphates. Salinity seems in the right range... and you did an ICP like test to rule out possible contaminants. Waterflow seems good based on equipment and tank vids. All of these may be critical for Acro, but i was able to grow a birdnest in my old crappy 30 gal nano with a cannister filter, no skimmer, no dosing, and those cheap US current leds.
2) issue affects both 'hardy' sps like birdnest and more 'challenging' acro. i don't of a pest that may damage both acros and birdnests.
3) you've played around with lights / flow and chemistry, and keep getting the same result..

perhaps its poly munching by the angel, but maybe i am grasping at straws!

Right! I appreciate the idea's very much. Without the help of other reefers and their input I would have never got this far! Nathan sure did grow a wonderful tank off of just 2 kessil 160's. Nitrates seem to be holding steady, its the phosphates that are now bouncing around. I did order a ICP test today, when it comes in this week I'll get it shipped out this week or next. May as well spend $50 to have the water tested VS spending the money on corals.

Mallard said:
Yeah, the parameters and inputs all look good. You should be able to keep SPS and see them grow. It seems like there is something in the tank that is causing the problems. Send off that ICP test to ensure something isn't really out of whack parameter wise, maybe even a RODI sample as well. But I'd also look for anything or anyone that might be adding something to the tank unknowingly. Cologne/perfume, soap, cleaners, air fresheners, etc that could make it into the air and is pulled in via the skimmer or when hands or equipment is put into the tank. I'd also look at anything DIY that touches the water. I can't remember who, but someone recently on R2R did an ICP test and found high levels of lead in his tank. He was able to narrow it down to the zip ties he was using.

I just changed out all of the filters in my RODI a couple weeks ago before I made 80 gallons of water that I store. I did order an ICP test, this time I went with triton. Last time I did the ATI ICP test and it did RODI water. I'll see what these results are first before I decide to also test the RODI water! I do have a DIY lid on the tank and I really thought that was my problem a few months ago when I did the ATI Test. But nothing came back that would create any issues.

pelphrey · Aug 15, 2018

Just got this in, hopefully send it out tomorrow. I did the ATI ICP Test last time. Giving triton a try!

Antics · Aug 15, 2018

pelphrey said:
Just got this in, hopefully send it out tomorrow. I did the ATI ICP Test last time. Giving triton a try!

I think the ICP test is a bit more accurate than taking a shot of your tank water and gargling it.

powers2001 · Aug 15, 2018

Antics said:
I think the ICP test is a bit more accurate than taking a shot of your tank water and gargling it.

Yeah but at least if you test it by gargling you're going to get some hair on your chest and coralline behind the ears !!!

pelphrey · Aug 17, 2018

I only have the one MP10wQD... for now! Haha I stole the wxm module off eBay. It’s an old casing module but makes no difference to me, none of my equipment is visible.

pelphrey · Aug 25, 2018

pelphrey · Aug 25, 2018

Now that I actually have the variable ports set right in the apex to control the kessils I should have the par I’m after. I had the color and intensity labeled wrong ‍

! Also dropped the fixture a little.

Algae turf scrubber has been pulled out of the sump for the time being.

Savo · Aug 25, 2018

Great video, have you thought about a chaeto reactor to replace your algae scrubber? The chaeto reactor made a huge difference in my tank and there on the cheaper side if you diys. If my tank was more mature I would send you some frags

CDavmd · Aug 26, 2018

Savo said:
Great video, have you thought about a chaeto reactor to replace your algae scrubber? The chaeto reactor made a huge difference in my tank and there on the cheaper side if you diys. If my tank was more mature I would send you some frags

I’d advise against a chaeto reactor. The point of removing the algae scrubber was to get his nutrients up. A reactor will drive them down again. He has been running low and near zero at times which is not good for SPS.

I think the light issue may have been contributing (fingers crossed).

@pelphrey - still don’t understand the need for Kalk and two part. You currently have little demand in the tank and it makes no sense that you need to supplement at this point.

Pick one method and just keep your calcium and alk stable. (Alk clearly more important). I personally would use two part in your current system. Kalk will lower your phosphates via precipitation which you are trying to avoid. Also Kalk can cause large pH swings when used saturated.

Now that you have your lights set- DONT TOUCH. Dose your two part, let some algae get established and give the tank a break for a bit. Let things stabilize and then try again with some hardy SPS like a stylophora or birds nest.

pelphrey · Aug 27, 2018

Savo said:
Great video, have you thought about a chaeto reactor to replace your algae scrubber? The chaeto reactor made a huge difference in my tank and there on the cheaper side if you diys. If my tank was more mature I would send you some frags

I've thought about it some, for now I don't need any nutrient export modes. I am going to hang on to the ATS. If I start to see issues I can put it back on my tank in 5 minutes or less. The good thing about the ATS is it has 4 lights, I can run as many lights as I want. So I could run 1 light say for 8 hours a day.

CDavmd said:
I’d advise against a chaeto reactor. The point of removing the algae scrubber was to get his nutrients up. A reactor will drive them down again. He has been running low and near zero at times which is not good for SPS.

I think the light issue may have been contributing (fingers crossed).

@pelphrey - still don’t understand the need for Kalk and two part. You currently have little demand in the tank and it makes no sense that you need to supplement at this point.

Pick one method and just keep your calcium and alk stable. (Alk clearly more important). I personally would use two part in your current system. Kalk will lower your phosphates via precipitation which you are trying to avoid. Also Kalk can cause large pH swings when used saturated.

Now that you have your lights set- DONT TOUCH. Dose your two part, let some algae get established and give the tank a break for a bit. Let things stabilize and then try again with some hardy SPS like a stylophora or birds nest.

I am currently not dosing anything in the tank. I did dose alk to raise it where I wanted it, and also the same with calcium. I am leaving them online but offline (if that makes sense). If my testing shows a swing in either direction its easy to turn the dosers back on to make adjustments if I need to raise any levels. I did some fine tuning on the lights yesterday, they won't be adjusted again. I am at a happy medium with 250 par in the middle of the tank, 150-180 and 200 in some spots on the sandbed. I feel like my light levels are good to go! Now time to sit back relax and let the tank do its thing!