Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Deep]

I have not. I will admit I didn't read through the 400+ pages but followed the standard treatment for ostreopsis laid out in a few different guides. Just a brief search in this thread for Vibrant shows that Vibrant is a bad idea. Did it work for you?

have you siphoned them out via a sock into the sump ? Manual removal should be done almost every day with Dinos till you see a decrease.

 

[joshwaggs]

I have not. I will admit I didn't read through the 400+ pages but followed the standard treatment for ostreopsis laid out in a few different guides. Just a brief search in this thread for Vibrant shows that Vibrant is a bad idea. Did it work for you?

I have never used it. I was just wondering if you tried it.

 

[attiland]

I'm near the end of my rope and I'm hoping I can get some help here. I got my first dino outbreak about 4 months ago, bought a microscope and identified Ostreopsis. The outbreak was BAD. I bought a UV light, some PO4 and some N03 to dose, and turned off my skimmer. I ran the UV 24/7, upped the P04 to ~.2ppm, N03 to 10-20 (it was hard to tell with my test) and it was working. I could see my sand!
Out of nowhere, I started getting bubbles all over my glass and mats of thick mucous-y dinos all over my sandbed, rocks, coral skeletons. The bubbles themselves go away when the lights are off each night. By about 2 hours into lights-on they're all back

I do have some green algae and what looks like red cyano growing but it's being outpaced by the snot.

When this started happening I started dosing my P04 and N03 higher, right now I'm sitting at about .03ppm and 30ppm. I have no idea what to do anymore. It's so bad I cant even see some of my rocks anymore. I'm willing to do any last-ditch extreme measures before I toss in the towel.

I had similar stage. The green stuff growing over your dinos is probably Cyano. Check it under microscope.
I would at this stage siphon the mats only without disturbing the sand itself. I have used a 5 microns socks. I had a very positive result doing it so and where I have not disturbed the sand almost no dinos anymore however where I have used a different technique I had quite bad relapse
I also had positive effect of large Chaeto balls over affected areas. In few days there was a significant reduction of dinos but the Chaeto balls had to be daily cleaned from Cyano and large die off of the algae itself.

 

[Dolphins18]

Update, battle w/ dinos complete, pred tank, HI :)

Hello, Been a few weeks, been battling some dinos which were KILLING my babies. (nems) My tank had more dinos than most people had ever seen, toxic dinos all throughout the nems, by 12 o clock they were stretching across the whole tank, covered the sand, etc. First of all I think people need...

www.reef2reef.com

I hope anyone who is battling these demons will take my advice. I really hope people listen this is important to me that people don't leave the hobby because of a misconception of what is required in the hobby! Please educate and save your tank! I will help you!

 

[hotdrop]

It’s been a year and Dinos have sort of ruined the hobby for me. It’s no fun when nothing will grow and everything dies. Just becomes a money pit and time sink.

 

[Dolphins18]

It’s been a year and Dinos have sort of ruined the hobby for me. It’s no fun when nothing will grow and everything dies. Just becomes a money pit and time sink.

Please see my post. Just try it, what do you have to lose. It is under $125 total including the food and rock reactor literally everything.

 

[Jason mack]

Hello everyone ...
Im in the process of researching the relationship between dinos and trace elements halogens and metals .
Certain trace elements have been found too inhibit the growth of fast growing algae(hair algae) bacteria (cyano) dinos and pathogens ..
Elements such as
Flourine
Iodine
Zink
Vaniduim
Molybdenum
Boron
Bromine
Im currently compiling data from icp tests on tanks with dinos (all types ) too be put in a spread sheet too compare ...i have so far 15-16 results .. but obviously the more data there is the more comparisons we can make ..
So i would like too ask if anybody has dinos and have done an icp test recently or will possibly consider getting one and then sharing their results with me i would be very grateful..
I would also like you too add info about your tank
Age of tank .
How it was started .(live rock , dry rock,live sand )
Tank volume
Type of dinos you have ..

Please feel free to send me your info with the link too your icp test results in a private message..
Thanks in advance Mack

 

[joshwaggs]

Hello everyone ...
Im in the process of researching the relationship between dinos and trace elements halogens and metals .
Certain trace elements have been found too inhibit the growth of fast growing algae(hair algae) bacteria (cyano) dinos and pathogens ..
Elements such as
Flourine
Iodine
Zink
Vaniduim
Molybdenum
Boron
Bromine
Im currently compiling data from icp tests on tanks with dinos (all types ) too be put in a spread sheet too compare ...i have so far 15-16 results .. but obviously the more data there is the more comparisons we can make ..
So i would like too ask if anybody has dinos and have done an icp test recently or will possibly consider getting one and then sharing their results with me i would be very grateful..
I would also like you too add info about your tank
Age of tank .
How it was started .(live rock , dry rock,live sand )
Tank volume
Type of dinos you have ..

Please feel free to send me your info with the link too your icp test results in a private message..
Thanks in advance Mack

Maybe a group without dinos, too. It can be used as the control.

 

[joshwaggs]

Hello everyone ...
Im in the process of researching the relationship between dinos and trace elements halogens and metals .
Certain trace elements have been found too inhibit the growth of fast growing algae(hair algae) bacteria (cyano) dinos and pathogens ..
Elements such as
Flourine
Iodine
Zink
Vaniduim
Molybdenum
Boron
Bromine
Im currently compiling data from icp tests on tanks with dinos (all types ) too be put in a spread sheet too compare ...i have so far 15-16 results .. but obviously the more data there is the more comparisons we can make ..
So i would like too ask if anybody has dinos and have done an icp test recently or will possibly consider getting one and then sharing their results with me i would be very grateful..
I would also like you too add info about your tank
Age of tank .
How it was started .(live rock , dry rock,live sand )
Tank volume
Type of dinos you have ..

Please feel free to send me your info with the link too your icp test results in a private message..
Thanks in advance Mack

@revhtree can we get this post highlighted or something?

 

[Kaiser]

Need help with an ID, looks like prorocentrum(?), Also maybe amphidinium?

 

[Jason mack]

Maybe a group without dinos, too. It can be used as the control.

I have some as well ..my tank has been dino free for 3 years now . I follow the triton method and do regular icp tests on my tank and dose trace elements too
I have my own fb page macks reef dino support group with 700+ members world wide .
Heres my latest from this month .

Triton Lab Showroom - Explore this water test results and click on the image above.

Someone wants to show you the water test results and shared this link to the evaluation. Click on the image above to explore the water test results.

www.triton-lab.de

 

[Jason mack]

Need help with an ID, looks like prorocentrum(?), Also maybe amphidinium?

Yes prorocentrum and lots of diatoms . I guess your dosing silicates for them . What are you dosing ?? Waterglass .. ?

 

[Jason mack]

Its now believed that 80% of dinos are actually zooxanthellae(as zooxanthellae are a type of dinoflagellates) that have been expelled by corals from stress ..from things like to strong lighting ..they then change too survive . The other 20% are added too systems from rock, sand,new corals ..snails that they come in on . .

 

[Jason mack]

For those people who are dosing silicates to battle amphidiniums or prorocentrum. We have found that the hanna ulr gives a false high reading as it reads si as well ...weve had this confirmed by icp tests as well .
Hanna states that the ulr will only be affected by 10ppm SI or higher ...this is not true we see it as low as 2-3 ppm ...we are currently trying too contact hanna about this and are waiting for a reply ..
In the meantime if you are dosing Si i would recommend getting a redsea pro p04 test as this is not affected by it ..
If your dosing Si and using Hanna and getting high readings then acting on them you are compounding the problem as likely your po4 will be 0 ...

 

[taricha]

Need help with an ID,

This is amphidinium.

Certain trace elements have been found too inhibit the growth of fast growing algae(hair algae) bacteria (cyano) dinos and pathogens ..
Elements such as
Flourine
Iodine
Zink
Vaniduim
Molybdenum
Boron
Bromine
Im currently compiling data from icp tests on tanks with dinos (all types ) too be put in a spread sheet too compare ...i have so far 15-16 results .. but obviously the more data there is the more comparisons we can make ..

So to be clear you are saying that HAVING one/some of those elements in high level may suppress dinos, so you are looking for one of those elements that is missing/low in essentially all dino infested tanks, but would be present occasionally in other tanks in the general hobby population.
That's a tricky statistical hunt.
Wouldn't people have noticed if they got dinos, had an ICP test, it said they were low on X element and they add it (maybe overdose) and things got better? That sort of flies in the face of the common story that adding trace element mixes causes dino bloom to reinvigorate (we think that's an Iron limitation, BTW.)

Its now believed that 80% of dinos are actually zooxanthellae(as zooxanthellae are a type of dinoflagellates) that have been expelled by corals from stress ..from things like to strong lighting ..they then change too survive

nope. Have looked at bunch of coral zooxanthellae under the microscope. Not a single dino outbreak people post has been from symbiodinium dinos in corals. Our problem dinos come from a handful of genera: ostreopsis, prorocentrum, amphidinium, coolia, - seen a couple of gambierdiscus here and there.

I attached an ID guide I made, if any are interested.

For those people who are dosing silicates to battle amphidiniums or prorocentrum. We have found that the hanna ulr gives a false high reading as it reads si as well ...weve had this confirmed by icp tests as well .
Hanna states that the ulr will only be affected by 10ppm SI or higher ...this is not true we see it as low as 2-3 ppm ...we are currently trying too contact hanna about this and are waiting for a reply ..
In the meantime if you are dosing Si i would recommend getting a redsea pro p04 test as this is not affected by it ..
If your dosing Si and using Hanna and getting high readings then acting on them you are compounding the problem as likely your po4 will be 0 ...

So at 2-3ppm Si (or SiO2?) the hanna ULR Phosphorus chemistry will show false positive?
Faaascinating.
I dosed in excess of 1ppm SiO2 per day for a while. My tank ate it up quickly. So it never accumulated and I never saw any PO4 interference. - It might be hard to get 2-3 ppm Si to accumulate.
But that is interesting.

 

[Kaiser]

Yes prorocentrum and lots of diatoms . I guess your dosing silicates for them . What are you dosing ?? Waterglass .. ?

actually, i haven't even started dosing for diatoms. I've been battling these for like a year and have just been feeding heavier than I used to. I tried a blackout at one point and they went away for like a week. Now I have a mess again. I didn't even recognize them as diatoms, i even went so far as ordering sodium silicate about 5 minutes ago..... Not sure what to do now...

 

[Kaiser]

This is amphidinium.


So to be clear you are saying that HAVING one/some of those elements in high level may suppress dinos, so you are looking for one of those elements that is missing/low in essentially all dino infested tanks, but would be present occasionally in other tanks in the general hobby population.
That's a tricky statistical hunt.
Wouldn't people have noticed if they got dinos, had an ICP test, it said they were low on X element and they add it (maybe overdose) and things got better? That sort of flies in the face of the common story that adding trace element mixes causes dino bloom to reinvigorate (we think that's an Iron limitation, BTW.)



nope. Have looked at bunch of coral zooxanthellae under the microscope. Not a single dino outbreak people post has been from symbiodinium dinos in corals. Our problem dinos come from a handful of genera: ostreopsis, prorocentrum, amphidinium, coolia, - seen a couple of gambierdiscus here and there.

I attached an ID guide I made, if any are interested.





So at 2-3ppm Si (or SiO2?) the hanna ULR Phosphorus chemistry will show false positive?
Faaascinating.
I dosed in excess of 1ppm SiO2 per day for a while. My tank ate it up quickly. So it never accumulated and I never saw any PO4 interference. - It might be hard to get 2-3 ppm Si to accumulate.
But that is interesting.

are you saying i have Amphidinium in addition to the Prorocentrum or just Amphidinium?

 

[Jason mack]

are you saying i have Amphidinium in addition to the Prorocentrum or just Amphidinium?

Then I would check your rodi water for silicates ..but for amphidiniums or prorocentrum you would want diatoms too help outcompete dinos

 

[Jason mack]

This is amphidinium.


So to be clear you are saying that HAVING one/some of those elements in high level may suppress dinos, so you are looking for one of those elements that is missing/low in essentially all dino infested tanks, but would be present occasionally in other tanks in the general hobby population.
That's a tricky statistical hunt.
Wouldn't people have noticed if they got dinos, had an ICP test, it said they were low on X element and they add it (maybe overdose) and things got better? That sort of flies in the face of the common story that adding trace element mixes causes dino bloom to reinvigorate (we think that's an Iron limitation, BTW.)



nope. Have looked at bunch of coral zooxanthellae under the microscope. Not a single dino outbreak people post has been from symbiodinium dinos in corals. Our problem dinos come from a handful of genera: ostreopsis, prorocentrum, amphidinium, coolia, - seen a couple of gambierdiscus here and there.

I attached an ID guide I made, if any are interested.





So at 2-3ppm Si (or SiO2?) the hanna ULR Phosphorus chemistry will show false positive?
Faaascinating.
I dosed in excess of 1ppm SiO2 per day for a while. My tank ate it up quickly. So it never accumulated and I never saw any PO4 interference. - It might be hard to get 2-3 ppm Si to accumulate.
But that is interesting.

No, what i mean is when these elements are in balance they inhibit dinos ,its when they are lacking or being overdosed that is an uderlaying cause with zero nutrients being the trigger ,not only just in high levels but an unbalace in trace elements, halogens and metals ...in most cases iodine is either lacking or overdoseded ,
It has always bothered me why some people beat dinos easy and some struggle or have repeated outbreaks and or go from battling say ostreopsis best them only too have Amphidinium or prorocentrum out break a few weeks later..
It has been my pleasure and honour to get too know Claude Schuhmacher..owner of Fauna Marin ..also inventor of DinoX ...hes been sharing his knowledge with me and findings with me ..which lead me too start collecting icp test results. ..

 

[Jason mack]

This is amphidinium.


So to be clear you are saying that HAVING one/some of those elements in high level may suppress dinos, so you are looking for one of those elements that is missing/low in essentially all dino infested tanks, but would be present occasionally in other tanks in the general hobby population.
That's a tricky statistical hunt.
Wouldn't people have noticed if they got dinos, had an ICP test, it said they were low on X element and they add it (maybe overdose) and things got better? That sort of flies in the face of the common story that adding trace element mixes causes dino bloom to reinvigorate (we think that's an Iron limitation, BTW.)



nope. Have looked at bunch of coral zooxanthellae under the microscope. Not a single dino outbreak people post has been from symbiodinium dinos in corals. Our problem dinos come from a handful of genera: ostreopsis, prorocentrum, amphidinium, coolia, - seen a couple of gambierdiscus here and there.

I attached an ID guide I made, if any are interested.





So at 2-3ppm Si (or SiO2?) the hanna ULR Phosphorus chemistry will show false positive?
Faaascinating.
I dosed in excess of 1ppm SiO2 per day for a while. My tank ate it up quickly. So it never accumulated and I never saw any PO4 interference. - It might be hard to get 2-3 ppm Si to accumulate.
But that is interesting.

I have icp tests from people where si has been anything from 2ppm upto 14ppm with readings of 0.2-.0.4 ppm on the hanna where icp shows that po4 is actually 0.02..we ask people to test with the hanna the same same time they send icp tests of for comparison..