Diver's Den Fish without QT???

[Neptune 555]

So I must say... If you are going to bother to QT at all I think a consideration MUST be Tank Transfer! You cant always see ich.. and treating with Copper or hypo salinity is dangerous and tough.. TT method is super easy just annoying... But I suffered once from velvet and NEVER again. I don't treat unless I see something but I do TT. and honestly I have used prazipro and every time a fish died in the process. Now I do TT and feed live food, pellets, and if poop is good they go into DT.

I have extra live rock and sponges ready for TT + ammonia alert badges. I add 2 pieces of live rock/ plenty of pvc / filter seeded with sponge from DT. after each TT I separate the LR and consider the rock contaminated until it remains in a fallow tank for 2 months.

 

[Neptune 555]

BUT what if your fish is bred in captivity and not in the wild THEN would you add it to your DT w/ out QT? My LFS swears they can deliver me clown fish bred in captivity that do not have ich / brook / velvet b/c they are bred by a distributor that only does this.. and they have no outside fish. All bred in captivity. The only caveat is that I need to pick up fish from LFS immediately b/c once he places them in his tank ich is a possibility.

thoughts?

 

[Josh Kraft]

BUT what if your fish is bred in captivity and not in the wild THEN would you add it to your DT w/ out QT? My LFS swears they can deliver me clown fish bred in captivity that do not have ich / brook / velvet b/c they are bred by a distributor that only does this.. and they have no outside fish. All bred in captivity. The only caveat is that I need to pick up fish from LFS immediately b/c once he places them in his tank ich is a possibility.

thoughts?

At some point a fish had to come from the wild, or another source.

 

[ridgley52]

Truth is ....it seems that Qt is absolutely necessary....it is unfortunate that their site literature can make you feel very comfortable about not Qt'ing one of their fish but as stated above it can be the beginning of the end....that being said.....My one and only DD purchase (White Tail BT Tang) was introduced without Qt over a year ago and luckily, it seems I slipped through! Be assured though that I will Qt all future fish purchased from any retailer.....doesn't mean all will be copper (or the like) treated without cause, but they will all undergo a freshwater dip, rounds of Prazipro and an extended observation period.....

They state to Qt everything on their site.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Anyone that asks i would tell them to quarantine everything that goes into your tank

Personally i feel gobies are very resilient to external parasites (thick slime-coat and all) so that plus divers den i would probably not quarantine
That being said i would ultimately make the final decision once i received the order i would take a look at the fish and see if i should qt or not

 

[eatbreakfast]

Anyone that asks i would tell them to quarantine everything that goes into your tank

Personally i feel gobies are very resilient to external parasites (thick slime-coat and all) so that plus divers den i would probably not quarantine
That being said i would ultimately make the final decision once i received the order i would take a look at the fish and see if i should qt or not

But they can still be carriers for disease....

 

[Velcro]

So I must say... If you are going to bother to QT at all I think a consideration MUST be Tank Transfer! You cant always see ich.. and treating with Copper or hypo salinity is dangerous and tough.. TT method is super easy just annoying... But I suffered once from velvet and NEVER again. I don't treat unless I see something but I do TT. and honestly I have used prazipro and every time a fish died in the process. Now I do TT and feed live food, pellets, and if poop is good they go into DT.

I have extra live rock and sponges ready for TT + ammonia alert badges. I add 2 pieces of live rock/ plenty of pvc / filter seeded with sponge from DT. after each TT I separate the LR and consider the rock contaminated until it remains in a fallow tank for 2 months.

TTM doesn't work for velvet. Also, chelated copper and chloroquine are probably way less stressful than being moved so many times for two weeks.

 

[ourcoralreef]

But they can still be carriers for disease....

Yes most definitely
A healthy fish from divers den 2 weeks qt plus a fish that has a resilience to disease i personally feel is a very low risk fish

A drop of water can carry disease even with coper even after 8 weeks

 

[eatbreakfast]

A drop of water can carry disease even with coper even after 8 weeks

But a fish after only 2 weeks carries many, many more.

 

[ourcoralreef]

But a fish after only 2 weeks carries many, many more.

Im not so knowledgeable on what has more but
I trust divers den i have seen their systems they put a bunch of fish into separate systems for qt
Check out the video
[YouTube]

 

[eatbreakfast]

Im not so knowledgeable on what has more but
I trust divers den i have seen their systems they put a bunch of fish into separate systems for qt
Check out the video
[YouTube]

There are quite a few reports of DD fish arriving with visible parasites or soon after. Considering that they are the industry leader, there record is still great, just not perfect. The fact that they encourage the consumer to qt themselves should tell you that although their protocol gets you a healthier fish than 1 directly from a wholesaler, disease and parasites can still make it through.

 

[ca1ore]

TTM doesn't work for velvet. Also, chelated copper and chloroquine are probably way less stressful than being moved so many times for two weeks.

Yes, was going to make the point about TT and velvet. CP has become my preferred treatment for most parasites.

 

[ca1ore]

So can anyone break down proper QT techniques and time frame? Everyone seems set on QT but what are the most effective steps to not infect and lose the whole tank? From reading these posts it seems to range from 2-8wks to 6 months?
I'm brand new to the hobby and only have four fish as of now, and purchased four Banggai's and a fire fish from LA a month ago, I did not quarantine as I was not properly set up to do so, and the firefish was found dead the other day, after about a week of odd behavior. After reading these posts I'm sort of bugging out now.
So can anyone break this down for me a little more in depth?
-The time frame for QT?
-The quarantine tank setup?
-The proper meds/supplements that should be used?
-The signs that a fish should be pulled after its been QTed? (behavior and/or any physical signs or marks?)
-Does this also apply to frags/invertebrates as well?
-What about clean up crews?
Sorry seems like a lot of questions but this has really spooked me out. I am now set up to have a QT however I have not the first clue how to approach this

Thanks

There are a couple of pinned threads at the top of this forum that I think answer your questions.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

In the past, I've bought many fish from the regular portion of the Liveaquaria webstore and a few from Diver's Den. I've always QT'd all fish going into my display and this system has never had any Crypto or Velvet. I recently purchased 2 gobies from Diver's Den and I really don't feel like going through the whole QT process. Does anyone have any experience/input on Diver's Den fish requiring QT? Are they still likely to carry Crypto, Velvet, flukes, etc.?

I typically extensively qt fish but due to factors outside of my control (moving to a sub 1000sqft apartment in the middle of a city) I have played with fire recently with divers den items as I literally have no room for a proper qt (I tried but having it on the floor in my kitchen was NOT working out ). Also, in general I have found gobies are horrible fish in quarantine and are escape artists the second a drop of copper is involved. After two divers den pairs jumped through the egg crate on my qt to death. The last one I purchased I directly added but did take a few precautions. I set up a clear storage bucket to observe them for a few hours, gave them a formalin dip upon before adding them, and upon adding to the display I did a few courses of food soaked in general cure. So far everything has been fine and all the fish I have gotten from divers den over the past 10 years have always been some of the healthiest fish I have purchased.

While purchasing my most recent pair I talked extensively with divers den (it took about 30 minutes of begging before I got the la rep to get an actual dd employee for me to speak with) The rep I spoke with was very candid about the quarantine procedures which are quite extensive from what he described. He said that most ocean captured fish are quarantined for at least a month and undergo multiple praziquantel/formalin dips, a treatment with broadspec abts, and a month of 0.5 ppm ionic copper. The two week “quarantine” according to the dd employee I spoke with is almost exclusively used for aquacultured fish from biota and ORA or from other sources that also have significant quarantine protocols which makes sense. Disease will always be a possibility no matter the source and there will always be an exception but I find it hard to believe that if you must play with fire that divers den isn’t one of the safest flames to play with. Hope this helps.

 

[Neo Jeo]

I placed an order from divers den. I want to add a reef safe ich treatment as a back up. I read somewhere about one but I forgot the name. Any suggestions? I will not be QT the divers den fish. I just don’t have the means to.

ThNks

 

[Bob Loblaw]

reef safe ich treatment

Hasn't been invented yet.

 

[paphater]

I think the best part about DD is that you are likely going to be getting a healthy fish. I think it is very unlikely that most people have a tank sterile of pathogens and parasites, but with a healthy fish they can effectively fight it off with their own immune system, to an extent. They key is to keep them healthy. But like others have said, that doesn't mean they can't introduce something to the rest of your tank. The DD fish maybe healthier than the livestock you already have.

 

[Neo Jeo]

I found kick ich to use if I see any. I also am using a new product recommended by a friend called https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00B89I6TY/ref=cm_cr_othr_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

I have a feeling that with DD and this stuff everything should work out fine.

I ordered a flame angel and a Caribbean Blue tang.

 

[scuzy]

Those reef safe meds is waste of money.

 

[Neo Jeo]

Those reef safe meds is waste of money.

What one? Kick ich?