Diver's Den Fish without QT???

cracker

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Thanks! Very good outline ! I have about the same setup & procedures . I don't necessarily have a lot of loss just a fish or 2 that were probably already on the way out.
Just wondered if I could improve in some way ..I like your intro of a soothing med intro in the beginning.
 

Goodgreef

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I rarely quarantine because my fish are just poop factories for my corals. Pretty much any disease or parasite a fish has doesn't actively attack coral. My most expensive fish is around $100 though so I can understand those showcasing fish worth 10 times that being paranoid about QT. I'd for sure QT anything bought from someone you don't know personally beyond walking in their shop or clicking a buy button.
 

chipmunkofdoom2

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I think a big part that people are leaving out of the equation is the source of the fish. The only LFS near me when I started reefing sold fish that looked okay on first inspection, but once they came home had a poor rate of survival. I ordered all my fish online back then, while my friend primarily bought at this LFS. I don't think I ever had a single casualty with my online fish, while my friend had nothing but problems with fish from the LFS. He probably had casualty rates above 50%. If I was in my friend's shoes and didn't have a point of reference, I might have assumed that I was killing the fish with improper QT. The reality is the fish that this store sold were likely just unhealthy. My friend wasn't an expert, but I saw his QT and tank setup, it was all pretty standard. We were both basically doing the same things, but his fish were dying and mine weren't. My sample size is small, so take this anecdote for what it's worth, but it's still a good point to consider.

Fish are a lot more hardy than we give them credit for. They can survive in some pretty poor conditions. I'm not advocating that we intentionally keep fish in unsafe tanks, but if you're following any one of the basic QT stickies on the forum, your QT tank is not killing your fish. They were sick to being with, even if you couldn't see any external signs of problems. When people go to the hospital, sometimes they die. That doesn't mean the hospital killed those people (unless the hospital is unsafe or has problems with secondary infections, but that's fairly rare in the US). Those people were already sick when they went to the hospital, or they suspected they had an undiagnosed health problem.
 

scott11106

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some vary good points,

Well ups finally delivered the fish 15 min ago so i will head home in a bit and see what i have. i assume it will be a couple bags of dead fish but if any are alive i will try to save them...5 days in a bag is not going to end well i expect
 

joporeefpro

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I have bought hundreds of fish off divers den. Generally i wait and watch for issues. If they go without an outbreak I won’t treat. Have a Achilles tang I got last month in qt now. Looked great for 3 weeks. Just broke out with velvet. Luckily I think I caught it in time. He is eating and healthy in with paragaurd now.
 

Colin Fowler

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In the past, I've bought many fish from the regular portion of the Liveaquaria webstore and a few from Diver's Den. I've always QT'd all fish going into my display and this system has never had any Crypto or Velvet. I recently purchased 2 gobies from Diver's Den and I really don't feel like going through the whole QT process. Does anyone have any experience/input on Diver's Den fish requiring QT? Are they still likely to carry Crypto, Velvet, flukes, etc.?

I just got done leaving my tank fallow for 8 weeks and moving all my fish to QT and copper treatment for Ich. It sucks. I will never not quarantine again.
 

ca1ore

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I have bought hundreds of fish off divers den. Generally i wait and watch for issues. If they go without an outbreak I won’t treat. Have a Achilles tang I got last month in qt now. Looked great for 3 weeks. Just broke out with velvet. Luckily I think I caught it in time. He is eating and healthy in with paragaurd now.

Not the same question. First, decide whether to do QT. Second, if you decide to QT, then decide whether to just observe or to treat prophylactically.
 

BananaSplit

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I have an ongoing theory: expose the fish to ick (yes I know; unheard of, right?). Feed it food loaded with garlic and nutrients soaked food, install a Hugo UV sterilizer, reduce lights to 2-4 hours/day until all ick is cleared. Repeat. Maybe I’m playing with Fire, maybe nature is Darwinism ‘ing ....but my 155 bowfront tank, is
 
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FLSharkvictim

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In the past, I've bought many fish from the regular portion of the Liveaquaria webstore and a few from Diver's Den. I've always QT'd all fish going into my display and this system has never had any Crypto or Velvet. I recently purchased 2 gobies from Diver's Den and I really don't feel like going through the whole QT process. Does anyone have any experience/input on Diver's Den fish requiring QT? Are they still likely to carry Crypto, Velvet, flukes, etc.?
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@Tft12 - I would never buy any type of Marine fish OR especially any type of SPS , LPS or even any of there soft corals from liveaquaria/ Diverden! I only buy from very reputable online coral stores, like - World Wide Corals , Cherry Coral, Unique Corals, AQUASD and Vivid aquariums. All of My TOP coral suppliers links are below for you review. If I were you I would stay away from Live-aquaria web-store, there are so many better ones online... Don't get me wrong I still go through the QT stage no matter where i buy them but you will have a less of a chance if you procure your Live stock through any of the following store I listed below:

I QT all my corals and fish for a min of 25 days and I observe them very closely and if they look like they are ready afer around a month, in they go! As far as my SPS frags, I dip all my corals with a product called MeCoral dipping, I use it before anything goes into my display as far as SPS frags.. If you don't properly QT your fish they can get sick and bring down your entire tank that you spent years on building it up. Trust me with 25 years of reef keeping, I have seen it all, especially if you have a mature tank with over 15 years of time and effort invested into it like I have and your tank breaks out with Red Bugs the Acropora Killer or ! Here is a shot of a pcs of coral with some RED BUGS all over it or your fish will get Crypto, Velvet, flukes etc etc.

https://worldwidecorals.com/
https://www.cherrycorals.com/
https://uniquecorals.com/
https://aquasd.com
https://vividaquariums.com

RED BUGS THE ACRO KILLER
red-bugs-2-reefs.jpg
 

alton

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Like the above post A picture is worth a thousand words, what is missing from this picture is a third Flame Angel and a smaller Regal. After a week of being in a QT 100 gallon tub with Prazi pro my new blue face angel was doing so great I decided to add him to my tank with existing fish. In less than a week he was dead, another week everyone else but the two female flame angels died. In two weeks the the larger flame killed the smaller. Today all my fish get a FW bath, and then a prazi bath. and then QT. It was my fault not DD, they clearly state to QT all incoming fish.
IMG_1450.JPG
 

ChrisW

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So can anyone break down proper QT techniques and time frame? Everyone seems set on QT but what are the most effective steps to not infect and lose the whole tank? From reading these posts it seems to range from 2-8wks to 6 months?
I'm brand new to the hobby and only have four fish as of now, and purchased four Banggai's and a fire fish from LA a month ago, I did not quarantine as I was not properly set up to do so, and the firefish was found dead the other day, after about a week of odd behavior. After reading these posts I'm sort of bugging out now.
So can anyone break this down for me a little more in depth?
-The time frame for QT?
-The quarantine tank setup?
-The proper meds/supplements that should be used?
-The signs that a fish should be pulled after its been QTed? (behavior and/or any physical signs or marks?)
-Does this also apply to frags/invertebrates as well?
-What about clean up crews?
Sorry seems like a lot of questions but this has really spooked me out. I am now set up to have a QT however I have not the first clue how to approach this

Thanks
 

sp1187

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some vary good points,

Well ups finally delivered the fish 15 min ago so i will head home in a bit and see what i have. i assume it will be a couple bags of dead fish but if any are alive i will try to save them...5 days in a bag is not going to end well i expect

what's the conclusion?
 

scott11106

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what's the conclusion?
get this,
i went home and after the fish were delivered yesterday and having been in bags since last Thursday (5 days) they were all alive... not only all alive but somewhat spry. i doubled the acclimating time and put them in qt as stressless as i could and this morning they are all still alive. i am shocked...
now the jury is still out if they will make it but i was sure that they would be dead.
 

sp1187

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get this,
i went home and after the fish were delivered yesterday and having been in bags since last Thursday (5 days) they were all alive... not only all alive but somewhat spry. i doubled the acclimating time and put them in qt as stressless as i could and this morning they are all still alive. i am shocked...
now the jury is still out if they will make it but i was sure that they would be dead.

a happy ending. that's awesome.
 

sp1187

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get this,
i went home and after the fish were delivered yesterday and having been in bags since last Thursday (5 days) they were all alive... not only all alive but somewhat spry. i doubled the acclimating time and put them in qt as stressless as i could and this morning they are all still alive. i am shocked...
now the jury is still out if they will make it but i was sure that they would be dead.

does that 5 days count as QT?
:D
 

chipmunkofdoom2

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I have an ongoing theory: expose the fish to ick (yes I know; unheard of, right?). Feed it food loaded with garlic and nutrients soaked food, install a Hugo UV sterilizer, reduce lights to 2-4 hours/day until all ick is cleared. Repeat. Maybe I’m playing with Fire, maybe nature is Darwinism ‘ing ....but my 155 bowfront tank, is

No, it is not unheard of. In the hobby it is called "disease management," and it means an ongoing commitment to pristine water quality and nutrition to keep the ich outbreaks to a minimum. The alternative is disease eradication through quarantine, fallow periods and medication when appropriate.

It's worth noting that there's nothing natural or Darwinian about fish in a glass box having ich. If anything, keeping fish in an aquarium with ich gives ich an unfair advantage. In the ocean, a fish may occasionally catch marine ich. But, because the ocean is so big, once the parasite falls off the fish, it is unlikely that the same fish will get infected again by the same parasite. The ocean is so large and there are too many other fish. The parasite that falls off the fish in question is much more likely to find and infect another fish instead of infecting the same one it just left. By putting ich-infected fish in a glass box, we're giving ich an advantage that evolution or Darwin never did. We're giving it a relatively stationary source of food. In the wild, fish don't typically have to deal with severe repeated infections of ich. Forcing them to do so in our tanks is about as unnatural as it gets.
 

eatbreakfast

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get this,
i went home and after the fish were delivered yesterday and having been in bags since last Thursday (5 days) they were all alive... not only all alive but somewhat spry. i doubled the acclimating time and put them in qt as stressless as i could and this morning they are all still alive. i am shocked...
now the jury is still out if they will make it but i was sure that they would be dead.
Be careful with long acclimation with shipped fish, especially ones held in a bag that long. They continue to produce ammonia, but co2 can't escape, so the ph drops, which turns the ammonia to a nontoxic form. However, once the bag is opened the co2 escapes, ph rises, and the ammonia becomes toxic again, and ammonia toxicity can cause burns on the gills, permanently damaging them, or even killing them.
 

Neptune 555

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Ok keep us posted!! wow I was feeling sick for you and upset with UPS!
no doubt..
i dont think they are out of the woods but so far so good and i am doing everything possible to keep them alive and flippin..
 
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