HIGH END Tenuis Hoarder

[WillH]

Interesting question and i didn't look at this. Does red sea provide all the elements per batch? or do you mean just the alk, calc and mag? if they provide those results where do we find them?

https://www.redseafish.com/my-batch/From my last batch -

pH		8.2-8.5	8.29
Total Alkalinity	meq/l	2.7 - 3	2.80 (7.84 dkh)
Calcium | Ca	mg/l	415-445	432
Magnesium | Mg	mg/l	1240-1320	1299
Sulfur | S	mg/l	870-930	893
Potassium | K	mg/l	375-405	391
Bromine | Br	mg/l	60-70	66.58
Strontium | Sr	mg/l	8-9	8
Boron | B	mg/l	4-4.4	4.36
Total ammonium | NH4/NH3	mg/l	≤0.1	≤0.1
Nitrate | NO3	mg/l	≤0.3	≤0.3
Phosphate| PO4	mg/l	≤0.03	≤0.03

 

[SBB Corals]

Were you able to send in an ICP with the TMP salt from germany?

I did not! I wish I did though and hopefully somebody still has the salt and can send in a test. TBO though im done experiment with TMP and testing it and thinking about. We just moved on and are now using Red sea Blue Bucket. We don't know the results yet and all the corals looks great.

 

[SBB Corals]

Shane,

I used Red Sea Blue Bucket and complained about Ba being much to high from my ATI ICP test since I follow reefmoonshiner's method.

I see on your Triton ICP test showing Ba levels at 77ug. You may start seeing much higher levels of Ba with your future water changes using Red Sea Blue Bucket. (This may be like your Iron levels slowly creeping up as you change your water using TMP salt)

I talked about it on reefmoonshiner FB group about wondering why my Ba levels creeping up and eventually figured out it came from my Red Sea Blue Bucket salt.

I don't know if there was any real harm like tissue peeling or anything too detrimental as my Ba levels slowly crept up to 111ug over time. I do have SPS, but not a pro like you.

Also, I noticed Manganese looks pretty high from your with your red sea salt on the triton test...

Hopefully this info may help you.

Hello,

Yes this really helps a lot and we appreciate you taking the time to write this up. We will deff watch our BA and Manganese Levels over time. We will check these levels now and watch if they rise. What salt are you using now?

 

[SBB Corals]

Great now SBB has me considering switching salts since I use Reef Crystals and it has an even higher Fe level. I wonder how repeatable these results are from one bucket of salt to the next.

IMO dont change anything if you tank is looking great. 2 of the best growers i know use Reef crystals and there tanks look amazing.

We are building a new 560 Gallon System and may use IO Reef Crystals for that system only... so we can test 2 different salts side by side. how is your tank looking now?

 

[Gtinnel]

IMO dont change anything if you tank is looking great. 2 of the best growers i know use Reef crystals and there tanks look amazing.

We are building a new 560 Gallon System and may use IO Reef Crystals for that system only... so we can test 2 different salts side by side. how is your tank looking now?

My tank has been doing really good recently, but I have attributed some of that to the fact that I started dosing trace elements not long ago. I had been considering switching salts anyway because my magnesium levels are staying higher than I'd like and that is without me dosing them. My plan was to start dosing trace elements and then wait a few months and send out an icp, I may stick with that plan before making any changes.

 

[SBB Corals]

I believe it is quite normal for freshly mixed saltwater to contain iron, see below links of other ICP tests of fresh mixed salts that contain iron.

The problem Shane is encountering is why is his tanks not consuming the iron quickly like it has been in the past.
I would assume TMP changed something in their mix related to iron.

Shane, prior to this issue, did you ever see iron on any of your regular ICP tests? I do not test nearly as frequently as you, but my iron always comes back at 0.

Good luck with the new salt, hope the transition is smooth and easy!


From: https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/
Iron ranges from 0-75 for freshly mixed salts(only 1 salt mix had 0)

from: that other website
Iron ranges from 0-50 with only Instant Ocean purple coming in at 0.

EDIT: FYI you attached the ICP for the 550 twice, can you upload the ICP for system 3 240 Gallons? Thanks!

Hello thank you for your write up! That is a great link and we will use that as a resource in the future. The RS in the chart above is the red sea blue bucket right? we looked at our Red sea Blue bucket ICP test and the numbers are different then theirs. For example our test shows 0 for Iron and Iodine we show 32 while the article shows 61.57. I wonder how many times ICP triton Tests are off. You can see the the test between Triton and Marinlab also are off. Maybe we should just stop chasing numbers LOL.

Either the corals stopped consuming iron or the Iron was building up over time..

As for the Iron consumption , we did have a lot more than normal algae growing very fast. The algae actually started taking over in one of the tanks. So I assume the alage was consuming the Iron and thriving. But maybe the sps Stopped consuming the Iron...

Another Important thing to consider is now my ORP is very high. It hovers above 400. With the TMP salt the ORP never went over 340 and would normally stay under 300. THis is the same result from all 3 of our systems. All the systems have this same high ORP now. So something in the TMP salt was bringing down the ORP. I also noticed when doing TMP water changes the ORP would drop like 50 points during a water change. the Red sea pro doesn't drop the ORP as much and now its noticeable higher. Maybe it's something in the Bonding material. In talking with other reefers it was suggested that Harmful substances, toxins and acids can bring down ORP. Do you have any experience with ORP?

Please see attached the result for the system 3 240 gallons

 

[Gtinnel]

Is higher ORP desirable? My understanding was essentially to just ignore it unless using ozone. Mine never really goes over 300, and I do know that it seems to have an inverse relationship with my pH.

 

[Duffer]

Folks,
For those of you that have issues with TMP or questions the following thread has been posted . This thread we have engaged Lou (CEO of TMP United states) and Hans about this. They have responded well and are asking for help to get them to see what is going on. I highly suggest you head that way so all of us that use TMP can get this settled...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/pro-reef-salt-from-turkey.877589/

 

[wmb0003]

Hello thank you for your write up! That is a great link and we will use that as a resource in the future. The RS in the chart above is the red sea blue bucket right? we looked at our Red sea Blue bucket ICP test and the numbers are different then theirs. For example our test shows 0 for Iron and Iodine we show 32 while the article shows 61.57. I wonder how many times ICP triton Tests are off. You can see the the test between Triton and Marinlab also are off. Maybe we should just stop chasing numbers LOL.

Either the corals stopped consuming iron or the Iron was building up over time..

As for the Iron consumption , we did have a lot more than normal algae growing very fast. The algae actually started taking over in one of the tanks. So I assume the alage was consuming the Iron and thriving. But maybe the sps Stopped consuming the Iron...

Another Important thing to consider is now my ORP is very high. It hovers above 400. With the TMP salt the ORP never went over 340 and would normally stay under 300. THis is the same result from all 3 of our systems. All the systems have this same high ORP now. So something in the TMP salt was bringing down the ORP. I also noticed when doing TMP water changes the ORP would drop like 50 points during a water change. the Red sea pro doesn't drop the ORP as much and now its noticeable higher. Maybe it's something in the Bonding material. In talking with other reefers it was suggested that Harmful substances, toxins and acids can bring down ORP. Do you have any experience with ORP?

Please see attached the result for the system 3 240 gallons

I believe in the article RS is the blue bucket and RSCP is the pro version. I don't think we can really trust ICP results 100%. They will probably give us a ballpark of the range we are in but we need to understand that there is potential for false readings.

For example: Look at this graph by @Dan_P https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...iton-vs-icp-analysis-com.875957/#post-9646096 The elements that register in the low ppb / micro gram/L are not that accurate in ICPs.

I am currently in the middle of an experiment that looks at dosing trace elements to my auto water change new salt reservoir. I am going to send off 4 ICPs(2 triton, 2 fauna marin) over the course of about a month and compare the numbers.

As far as ORP goes, I don't really worry with it, however I am normally below 300, I use IO purple salt. As @Gtinnel stated, I read that if you are not running ozone, it is not worth worrying over it or trying to raise it.

 

[SBB Corals]

Do you have any macro algae in your system or other organisms that use iron? Or do you have any other possible imports of iron such as trace elements. I use TMPR and Red Sea Blue Bucket exclusively on my system (mostly TMPR) and I just looked back at my last 4 ICP tests and they all have iron at zero. Both salts apparently have iron in the mix so it must be used by the algae in my system.

Hello,

we are not currently running Macro. BUt i think your alage is consuming the Iron. That is a great point.

 

[SBB Corals]

Hey guys,

just here to share my experience with the exact same issue. In July of 2021 TM started flooding into my area again and oh what a relief as the pandemic had caused such supply chain issues with this company I have supported for 6 years I thought that the brand had gotten so popular perhaps the constant out of stock nature of the salt was going to be permanent. In august of 2021 I started suffering massive losses of sps corals and clams from an unknown cause. Every waking moment of my free time was spent ripping my hair out trying to figure out what the cause was of my coral death. I never wanted to blame the salt. In mid September I made a post about my issue finally questioning the salt and having retrospectively appreciating that all my new salt was from turkey I had pretty much already solidified my diagnosis after 6 weeks of complete and utter pain and demoralization trying to work up the problem. I made the post on askbrs Facebook page in September 2021 and no one took it seriously. By the time I got my new salt brand I had lost an approximate 40-50k in coral value of a collection which took me 10 years of blood, sweat and food deprivation to achieve. I did a water change with the new salt on arrival and polyps I hadnt seen in six weeks came out immediately. After two days of water changes equaling to 20 percent of 450 gallons everything that was pealing stopped immediately and colors started to show up again about 12 days later. The turn around was incredible. The only thing I changed was the salt.

The agony of this circumstance was the most intense experience of my life as my corals help feed me and my animals. The stress was unbelievable. At the end of the experience tropic offered me 440 dollars for the four buckets of salt that Killed half my collection and mother colonies which took 10 years to grow. Everytime I see a post and a reignition of this discussion about tropics recent shady dealings I cringe. Outside of the measly 440 dollars they sent me they offered no real acknowledgment or apology that they HAVE A BIG PROBLEM. I live in the Chicago area and am one of the largest if not the largest high end coral collector and vendor in the Midwest. I put everyone and their mother on this salt. I wouldn’t even give advice to you if you weren’t using tropic. If you were having problems in your tank and weren’t on tropic I would literally make you switch to tropic before working with you. I posted in my local club of 5k members to warn everyone and most people took it seriously. Some didn’t initially and now THEY ARE USING THIS SALT TO SALT THEIR DRIVEWAYS because the same exact thing started happening with their tanks. They made a switch to a new brand and things turned around immediately. It pains me greatly to see other people losing their reef to this corporate BS and it’s clear as day they are cutting corners with their new production line. Since September I have had over 100 people in my dm with the exact same story as what Shane just laid out in his post and what happened to me. And in the past 4 months they have done nothing to remedy the situation. They are in complete denial and think their product is the same as always when clearly it is not. Post after post after post on FB has proven this to be true of people finding random things being off with their salt mix and tropic doesn’t consider this to be proof of a problem they need to address. I look back at this experience and besides the utter pain and feelings of horror it brings up in me I feel disappointed mostly. I was a huge asset to turn the entire Chicagoland and Midwest market towards this company and after this experience I will never ever ever be brand loyal ever again. They should be held accountable and a class action lawsuit should take place. I lost 40k at a minimum and that doesn’t account for the mental toll it took on me and my career at its peak.

Sincerely,
Ryan Cunningham MD MBS

Owner and Operator of Chumminghamsreef

thanks for sharing

 

[SBB Corals]

Sorry for all that grief. It would be hard for me to pin fault on something so basic, but you guys have me feeling good about my decade with IORC and all of its brown residue and elevated lithium.

You don't mention your new source. RSBB seems comparable; is that what you chose?

I did start using Red Sea blue Bucket. we are starting a new 560 gallon system and may run IORC on that system to see how it compares to the other systems. some of the best growers we know swear by IORC

 

[SBB Corals]

Now I am wondering if this could be my issue. 2 years old 450g tank with TMRP from day one. Tried acros at 1 year and failed. Gave myself a break to let the tank mature for another year. Tried another batch of acros the past black friday sale and they basically hanged on for 4-6 weeks and slowly died with whitening/bleaching from the base. I never paid attention to where mine was coming from but I know they were in boxes lately instead of buckets earlier on. I am thinking of overhauling my whole system. Maybe a new salt mix should be in my plan? Question is which one?

have you sent in an ICP test and yes we would recommend switching salts

 

[Kingston]

have you sent in an ICP test and yes we would recommend switching salts

No, my last ICP test was from Sept 2020. I am going to send an ICP out but I want to decide whether to do it before or after I switch salts.

 

[SBB Corals]

https://www.redseafish.com/my-batch/From my last batch -

pH		8.2-8.5	8.29
Total Alkalinity	meq/l	2.7 - 3	2.80 (7.84 dkh)
Calcium | Ca	mg/l	415-445	432
Magnesium | Mg	mg/l	1240-1320	1299
Sulfur | S	mg/l	870-930	893
Potassium | K	mg/l	375-405	391
Bromine | Br	mg/l	60-70	66.58
Strontium | Sr	mg/l	8-9	8
Boron | B	mg/l	4-4.4	4.36
Total ammonium | NH4/NH3	mg/l	≤0.1	≤0.1
Nitrate | NO3	mg/l	≤0.3	≤0.3
Phosphate| PO4	mg/l	≤0.03	≤0.03

thanks for sharing we will look into the batch we have and see how the ICP results match up

 

[SBB Corals]

My tank has been doing really good recently, but I have attributed some of that to the fact that I started dosing trace elements not long ago. I had been considering switching salts anyway because my magnesium levels are staying higher than I'd like and that is without me dosing them. My plan was to start dosing trace elements and then wait a few months and send out an icp, I may stick with that plan before making any changes.

If dosing trace elements in a multi bottle like red sea abcd where there is multiple trace in one bottle i would suggest doing ICP sooner then later it is very easy to overdose like this... what are you using for trace dosing?

 

[Gtinnel]

If dosing trace elements in a multi bottle like red sea abcd where there is multiple trace in one bottle i would suggest doing ICP sooner then later it is very easy to overdose like this... what are you using for trace dosing?

I've been using tropic marin pro coral A and K trace elements. I've been using them about 6 weeks and so far have seen a positive impact on my tank, but around the same time I made several changes to my tank so I can't say positively that it was the trace elements that made the difference.

I have been dosing them in lower quantities than recommended and I had talked to Randy Holmes-Farley and he said that overdosing as long as I wasn't adding more than the directions called for is fairly unlikely.

I was going to do an icp test anyway so I will go with your suggestion and just go ahead and order the kit today. I guess there is no reason to wait any longer.

Also, in my previous post I said that my magnesium was increasing, but after posting that I discovered that it was not increasing. It was actually slightly lower than I wanted so I ended up adding a little. I need to learn not to put as much confidence in my trident as I do. I regularly check my alk with other test kits, but I don't manually test cal/mag very often.

 

[SBB Corals]

No, my last ICP test was from Sept 2020. I am going to send an ICP out but I want to decide whether to do it before or after I switch salts.

We would recommend before and after so you can monitor how the trace elements change before and after changing salts.

 

[SBB Corals]

Good morning Everyone,

we hope you are off to a great start of the year! to follow up from the Tropic marin post we have decided to switch to red sea blue bucket.

we are not about 1 month into the new salt and all we can say is we love the results. everything seems much more balanced and happy. The salt mixed crystal clear and there is no residue. We also noticed that the alk is much more consistent. Overall we feel the red sea blue bucket is much more quality. Also on new import tenuis the corals are thriving with the red sea blue bucket. Many more tenuis colonies lived them normal.

we have just received news also that tropic marin pro has finally taken some ownership if the issue and suspended the production of the tropic marine pro from turkey. So anybody who is still using this salt we would recommend to switch to something else.

see link below for this statement from tropic marin pro about the suspension of the salt.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/pro-reef-salt-from-turkey.877589/page-20#post-9836577

Furthermore since we switched 1 month ago to the red sea blue bucket we got our 1st results back from ICP and its looking really good! we do need to supplement some elements as you can see from the ICP but this should be easy enough! we are really looking forward to getting all our elements up and to see the results .

Happy reefing everybody as always we enjoy your feedback and reading your comments on these posts.

 

[Utubereefer]

Good morning Everyone,

we hope you are off to a great start of the year! to follow up from the Tropic marin post we have decided to switch to red sea blue bucket.

we are not about 1 month into the new salt and all we can say is we love the results. everything seems much more balanced and happy. The salt mixed crystal clear and there is no residue. We also noticed that the alk is much more consistent. Overall we feel the red sea blue bucket is much more quality. Also on new import tenuis the corals are thriving with the red sea blue bucket. Many more tenuis colonies lived them normal.

we have just received news also that tropic marin pro has finally taken some ownership if the issue and suspended the production of the tropic marine pro from turkey. So anybody who is still using this salt we would recommend to switch to something else.

see link below for this statement from tropic marin pro about the suspension of the salt.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/pro-reef-salt-from-turkey.877589/page-20#post-9836577

Furthermore since we switched 1 month ago to the red sea blue bucket we got our 1st results back from ICP and its looking really good! we do need to supplement some elements as you can see from the ICP but this should be easy enough! we are really looking forward to getting all our elements up and to see the results .

Happy reefing everybody as always we enjoy your feedback and reading your comments on these posts.

Thanks for this awesome write up! What brand of trace elements do you dose?