How I Cipro

[OrionN]

I am on vacation but check in with my cell phone. No reply. I guess that's good.

 

[OrionN]

I guess anybody would object to being called ludicrous. I am no different. I spend a lot of time and my own expenses to come up with this protocol and strongly object to been call "ludicrous"

I addressed some of your arguments on my previous post.
Regarding the need to do trials to determine the effectiveness of the protocol. It is easy to do but does cost quite a bit. To determine the numbers of animals needed, there will be a few assumptions on how effective the protocol is and the death rate of anemones without treatment. Likely the minimal number of anemones for EACH ARM, antibiotic or no antibiotic would be around 20-50 animals. Let use about 25 each total of 50 animals. I have done clinical trials before and know how to calculate these number but will not go through these here.
For each animals. Cost for the animal is 50-300. I will just use 50. Shipping 50. Water changes total 100+ gals (10 gal per day at least for 10 days) cost 50.00. Cost for the medication and cost to get prescription can easily get to 100 per treatment. Electricity not included. My time, I charge the lawyers 250.00 per hr whenever I have to do deposition for them. 2 hrs per day. 500 total time per dayor 5000.00 per treatment. Space for the treatment not charge.

As you can see, multiply these expenses by 50 and you have a huge number even without charge for my time. Why should I spend my own money and time to answer to LUDICROUS objections like Your's.

Over the last 20 years I have spend a lot of my time help many Reefers. I feel that I have contributed to the advances of the our hobby significantly. Formulated the protocol for treatment of Pinched Mantel Disease in Clams is one and Antibiotic protocol for treatment of sick anemone is the other. I certainly not benefit financially from these. Emotionally I am happy that a lot more of these incredible animals are alive with our/my help.

Hope that you think about your objection in the future and refrain from calling other ludicrous.

 

[Amoo]

@OrionN Good to see you bud, I would just let it go, you're locked into a debate about how "environmentally safe" this treatment may be, in a hobby forum where we literally take the "environment" and stick it in a box for our own personal enjoyment. Seems like an odd place to be taking a moral high ground, but hey, everybody has their own things. You, and I and many many others are very well aware of the efficacy of this treatment protocol and you shouldn't let it bother you everytime somebody wants to take a shot below the belt.

Happy Reefing my friend.

 

[OrionN]

Thanks Amoo.
Enjoy the new video of some of my anemones:

 

[Amoo]

You may remember I'm not much of a carpet kinda guy, but you sure do make a good case for them. Looking good as always.

 

[Jennie]

How do I get the proper meds. my anemone is sick and my vet won't prescribe anything for me.

 

[Amoo]

Try googling Fish Flox

 

[Jennie]

Try googling Fish Flox

What about the other two meds? SMZ & TP?

 

[Jennie]

Also which one of these should I get?

 

[Amoo]

Personally I would get the 30 count of 500mg and break them up as needed, but the choice is really up to you and how you go about following the methods in the OP.

 

[OrionN]

Yes. Get the 500 mg. It is cheaper per dose

 

[Jennie]

Yes. Get the 500 mg. It is cheaper per dose

Thank you I ordered that! Hope my nem lasts till it gets here

 

[Dizzirn]

@OrionN
@Amoo

Hello and thank you for your posts... I love the way you explain treatment in your threads... I also am from the medical field, ER RN x 20+yrs.

I recd my cipro in the mail and am now treating nems and starting to see improvements

 

[Jennie]

Yes. Get the 500 mg. It is cheaper per dose

OrionN how did I you fair in the hurricane, hope all is well!

 

[OrionN]

My tank did not fare well. Please see the hurricane thread

 

[Amoo]

My tank did not fare well. Please see the hurricane thread

Sorry to hear that Mihn . I'll scurry over and check it out. I'm also sorry to read about the loss of your brother. My condolences. I just went through a 6 day power outtage a few months ago that crashed mine due to massive Fuge die off I lost all three of my H. Mags even, was barely able to save the clowns.

So I'm in rebuilt mode at the moment. Did happen to score the H. Mag off of Diver's Den tonight so that's a start

 

[OrionN]

There was one thing I did not think of trying to disaster proof my tank which is somebody shut off my generator. That was what happened. After the hurricane everything were fine with the house and the tank. One of my friend check it out for me while I was not there. Then somebody shut off the natural gas to my generator result in the crashing of my tank. I was able to save most of my Anemones and LPS by send them to a friend's tank. The Gigas clam, fishes and SPS are gone. I also have to clean up and restart.

Sorry to learn about your tank.

 

[Amoo]

There was one thing I did not think of trying to disaster proof my tank which is somebody shut off my generator. That was what happened. After the hurricane everything were fine with the house and the tank. One of my friend check it out for me while I was not there. Then somebody shut off the natural gas to my generator result in the crashing of my tank. I was able to save most of my Anemones and LPS by send them to a friend's tank. The Gigas clam, fishes and SPS are gone. I also have to clean up and restart.

Sorry to learn about your tank.

Maybe consider putting a pad lock and some kind of chain or something on your generator gas valve? I read through your responses on the Hurricane thread, that's really unfortunate. I thought my system was bomb proof as well, but turns out I forgot to account for the fuge.....sigh. I lost literally everything but like a few Acans, my clowns, 1 foxface and some mangroves... It happens. I'm glad to hear your house and everything fared well in the storm and you guys didn't succumb to the flooding. I have some close friends who live in the area and they are very high and got water all the way up to their porch, which is quite a distance. I decided to ditch the 125 and swapped it for a shallow 60 frag tank as the frag tank was pretty much useless after everything in it died. I'm also in the process of a 32G rimless to replace the 28 jbj. In total I lost 4 H. Mags between the 3 tanks . Glad you were able to rehome some stuff while you're getting your tanks back on their feet. Good luck my friend, I know what a process it is, I'm going down the same road myself.

 

[MnFish1]

Many of us including myself are in the medical field. In fact, a doctor just posted above you here on this page. That's great that you found "one" article that points out how horrible Cipro is on the environment. I've been working around antibiotic therapy for over 10 years and the doctor above for 20+. We're well aware of what happens to antibiotics after they leave the body or our aquariums. Thanks for your info though.

Curious - What is the illness/bacteria being treated with Cipro in the protocol? What is the average MIC for that bacteria (for cipro)? What was the dose of 250mg/10 gallons based on? The dose 250mg/10 gallon (about 6.25 ug/ml) is maintained constantly or with slight decrease in a tank assumedly? This is higher than the 1000mg dose serum concentration after an oral dose (5.4 ug/ml). After 12 hours in the human the concentration drops to .4 ug/ml (this is the highest twice daily human dose). I have heard of people using even higher doses of cipro (500mg/10 gallons). So just curious what science this was based on. Am getting a carpet anemone soon

 

[MnFish1]

Many of us including myself are in the medical field. In fact, a doctor just posted above you here on this page. That's great that you found "one" article that points out how horrible Cipro is on the environment. I've been working around antibiotic therapy for over 10 years and the doctor above for 20+. We're well aware of what happens to antibiotics after they leave the body or our aquariums. Thanks for your info though.

Sorry - hit end too soon - There is a difference though. A medical professional is prescribing cipro to a person for a specific reason - and it is not prescribed anywhere near as often as it has been previously due to emerging resistance (and side effects). It is becoming more and more reserved for special circumstances as compared to years ago. The patient that receives cipro has to pee it out - and it has to go in the toilet.

Empirically treating an invertebrate with a medication and since this is 'optional' it may be considered 'irresponsible antibiotic use'. Unless there is clear rationale (what bacteria/what susceptibility etc) for that use. At least, there should be some consideration of that (IMHO).