How to Not Quarantine?

[doubleshot00]

I will always QT now before adding new fish. I have got several fish from Dr. Reef and all the fish have arrived healthy and happy. One other big reason to buy QT fished is they are used to the foods we feed. They live pellets and flakes right from day one. Costs more but so worth it.

I see fish at the LFS i want so bad but i know not to do it.

 

[MnFish1]

I've got the respect for the honesty.

I think that EVERYONE who chooses to not QT fish, should have a full Emergency QT setup, Plan, and materials/medications on hand to be able to Treat your fish, When they get sick.

Outbreaks can happen to those of us that Do QT Also. My new tank is Fallow, CURRENTLY.

Im better set up to deal with a catastrophic outbreak than someone who does not quarantine.. That means more of my fish live. If you know the risks and you're going to gamble, Just have a plan for when the defecation hits the oscillation.

actually I think the experts (whatever that means) - would suggest that once an issue goes beyond a certain point - its hopeless

 

[Tamberav]

It's comical when the " I won't QT fish because it is Mean to the Fish" argument is made, but they are ok with someone else being "mean" to the fish then buying it.

I've had more fish die while being QT'd at Dr reef than I have in my own QT's and I've cycled 5 times the amount of fish through my qt as I've bought from them.

Commercial quarantine sees HUGE loses.

Fishotel reports on their survival rate sometimes... I know in December it was 95% of fish graduated from QT. 66/69 fish.

Edit: found the %

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Fishotel reported their success rate recently... it was good. I would have to go find that post...

I don't know who that is, but would love to see the raw data for sure.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

actually I think the experts (whatever that means) - would suggest that once an issue goes beyond a certain point - its hopeless

Yeah and that point happens after initial symptoms appear. I had a GNARLY aggressive and fast ick hit me recently. I had 3 days warning before fish started actually dying. Out of ten fish affected, 3 died within 24 hours and the rest are free and clear in a medicated HT.

Having everything on hand and ready is why they are still alive.

 

[Tamberav]

I don't know who that is, but would love to see the raw data for sure.

Ya it is interesting.. he has reported huge loses too at one point or another from Uronema. Uronema sucks. I think half the battle is picking a good supplier of fish I am sure.

He is a popular QT vender on humblefish's website.

 

[Anemone_Fanatic]

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, just trying to learn. Sounds like I should definitely stick to just pre-quarantined/breeder direct for now, and look into setting up a QT. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!

Go with pre-quarantined if you don’t want to do it yourself.

Remember the primary goal of a comprehensive quarantine protocol is to protect the existing fish in your display.

Our quarantine process stops about 80% of the highly communicable diseases; ich, velvet, flukes. Brooklynella needs a different scenario. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/


Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.

I personally wouldn't recommend not feeding meaty foods. My puffer and tusk thrive on grocery store clams. All my fish (even tangs and foxface herbivores) love meaty foods.

3. There is no evidence that having PVC vs something else - is a problem. etc etc

Very few fish I have put through QT act what I would call normal in QT. It's always stressful for me hoping that they make it through QT.

I will always QT now before adding new fish. I have got several fish from Dr. Reef and all the fish have arrived healthy and happy. One other big reason to buy QT fished is they are used to the foods we feed. They live pellets and flakes right from day one. Costs more but so worth it.

I don't understand, do you buy QT fish and still QT at home?

 

[MnFish1]

Very few fish I have put through QT act what I would call normal in QT. It's always stressful for me hoping that they make it through QT.

My point was only that I'm not sure there is any evidence (some say there is) - that using towers of PVC - or something 'natural' as a hiding place in QT makes no difference to the fish. When I have done QT - I turn on no lights - except for ambient lights on a timer in the room - and measure the water volume - draw a line at where that water volume matches xxx gallons - then top off to that point - or water change to that point. Rocks, and etc - IMHO in QT MAY only cause failure. Yes - I agree with you - fish don't act normal in QT - depending on the conditions they are in.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

I do not quarantine for the same reason than the one you mentioned.
I did think about buying pre-quarantined fish, but never did. I think that my LFS is quite reliable, and never buy on line. It gives you the chance to observe the fish before getting it. The observation tank could be a solution for you. The tank can have rocks, macro and sand. You observe the fish in as good an environment as possible for 30 days or so which would gives time to see if fish is sick.
But I do the easy way, directly in the tank. I have been doing it for 10 years. I do not buy rare and delicate fish, just fish that are easy or intermediate, and I make sure the tank is big enough for them and that the aggression should be minimum.

 

[Calypso's Marine Oasis]

You could also buy directly from ORA or Biota... Captive bred and *should be* disease free.

bought a few times directly from one of these two, and the last shipment had flukes pretty badly and it was captive bred yellow tangs, so theres no guarantee with captive bred without disease either . Only true bet s QT yourself or buy pre QT.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

bought a few times directly from one of these two, and the last shipment had flukes pretty badly and it was captive bred yellow tangs, so theres no guarantee with captive bred without disease either . Only true bet s QT yourself or buy pre QT.

Are you certain the the Biota YT were not tanked with other fish at some point prior to you getting them? That would be a first report I've heard of flukes from their fish that didn't have some other route of exposure.

That said, I quarantine everything - even fish from other public aquariums.


Jay

 

[Cthulukelele]

My understanding is that regardless of fish health, velvet will usually kill them if presenting. Pretty much every other fish disease seems manageable with proper nutrition and low stress environments. It's a risk. The question always becomes risk aversion. What risk are you willing to onboard? Best practices are best practices. Not following them could burn you or you could get lucky. I will say if you've got a tank full of unquarantined fish and you throw a recently heavily medicated long qt fish into it I don't like that fish's odds

 

[nuxx]

I personally enjoyed QT.

Smaller fish would go into a 20L and larger fish in a 40B.

Gave me time to get to know and get used to the new fish. Formed a bond with my Bandit Angel, getting him to eat. Spent $$$ at Whole Foods getting him fresh seafood lol...

Then we had the GP, that every morning I was scared to look to see if he was still alive :X

 

[Calypso's Marine Oasis]

Are you certain the the Biota YT were not tanked with other fish at some point prior to you getting them? That would be a first report I've heard of flukes from their fish that didn't have some other route of exposure.

That said, I quarantine everything - even fish from other public aquariums.


Jay

@Jay Hemdal I do not know how they were handled prior to when I received them. But I ordered directly from the company and planned on just an observational qt. But it was one of if not the biggest fluke infestation I've ever had on fish I've received.