Ich Outbreak!

[andiesreef]

Hello. I'm having an ich outbreak in my 20g DT. I have no quarantine tank, but I could throw together a Home Depot bucket with a heater and filter if I need to. A month ago, my royal gramma came down with ich. it was my first ever SW fish and I was devastated. I removed it and placed it in a 5g bucket after nearly decimating my entire scape, and then used SeaChem ParaGuard for 5 days. After almost all of the spots were gone, I put it back in the DT. It had one tiny spot on its tail. it seemed to recover shortly after, only to be struck with ich again a week later and dying soon after. It was covered in whitish sores and was scratching constantly during the few hours of it’s life. I was devastated, and feel responsible. I'm a believer that ich exists everywhere, even in freshwater setups, and not much short of an incredibly extensive quarantine that I don't have the time or tank for would stop ich from getting into the system. I have treated countless FW tanks for ich with great results, but SW is a new beast entirely. After a week, I added a YWG and it's still doing great. Eating like a pig, no ich whatsoever. A few days ago, a black snowflake clown was added into the setup. It had done great for the first 3 days (eating happily, swimming around, no scratching against rocks or labored breathing), but seemingly overnight it became coated in the telltale white specks. My YWG is still unaffected. The clown is still eating with vigor and acting normal. What do I do? Should I try to take down my whole tank again to treat it? Should I feed and hope for the best? I just want the clownfish and goby to be ok.

 

[FlyingOctopi]

I'm new to the hobby so I can't help that much but I believe ich has a 76 day life cycle so the tank would have to be fish less for that amount of time. I'm having problems with my Anthias so I'm not sure what to do or how to prevent it.

 

[Paheej]

I've never had Ich in my Marine tank in about four years of saltwater fish keeping - however I would spend the $100 or so bucks to get a quarantine tank; it is 100% worth it even it it just sits in your garage most of the time. I run just a small 10g tank, filter with Purigen, heater, setup an airstone, and dose Ich-X on all arrivals for their first week of two week quarantine. No gravel/sand and do a 50% water change every day (do give them something to hide in though). Running purigen lets me setup/breakdown the tank without cycling and aggressive water changes seems to keep problems at bay. Interestingly I run the same method on my freshwater fish and actually had some new freshwater arrivals breed in their quarantine tank.

 

[Peng1606]

Hello. I'm having an ich outbreak in my 20g DT. I have no quarantine tank, but I could throw together a Home Depot bucket with a heater and filter if I need to. A month ago, my royal gramma came down with ich. it was my first ever SW fish and I was devastated. I removed it and placed it in a 5g bucket after nearly decimating my entire scape, and then used SeaChem ParaGuard for 5 days. After almost all of the spots were gone, I put it back in the DT. It had one tiny spot on its tail. it seemed to recover shortly after, only to be struck with ich again a week later and dying soon after. It was covered in whitish sores and was scratching constantly during the few hours of it’s life. I was devastated, and feel responsible. I'm a believer that ich exists everywhere, even in freshwater setups, and not much short of an incredibly extensive quarantine that I don't have the time or tank for would stop ich from getting into the system. I have treated countless FW tanks for ich with great results, but SW is a new beast entirely. After a week, I added a YWG and it's still doing great. Eating like a pig, no ich whatsoever. A few days ago, a black snowflake clown was added into the setup. It had done great for the first 3 days (eating happily, swimming around, no scratching against rocks or labored breathing), but seemingly overnight it became coated in the telltale white specks. My YWG is still unaffected. The clown is still eating with vigor and acting normal. What do I do? Should I try to take down my whole tank again to treat it? Should I feed and hope for the best? I just want the clownfish and goby to be ok.

If you want to go into this hobby long term then you should look at proper set up and quarantine. Quarantine doesn’t just prevent ich but other diseases like velvet, brook, uronema and parasites. And no, ich does not exist everywhere. With proper quarantine you can have an ich free system and many of us have that. Also read up on disease life cycles and management as 5 days of treatment is not enough which is why your fish died. Look at proper quarantine and treatment with copper etc... lots to read and learn or you will just face heartache and throw money down the drain...

 

[Peng1606]

I'm new to the hobby so I can't help that much but I believe ich has a 76 day life cycle so the tank would have to be fish less for that amount of time. I'm having problems with my Anthias so I'm not sure what to do or how to prevent it.

Yes you are correct and need to leave tank empty of all fish (corals and inverts can remain) for 76 days minimum.
What problems are you having with anthias? A lot of them are coming in with uronema which ends up as red sores or blotches on body and they don’t survive once that shows up...

 

[Doctorgori]

I went 20+ yrs no ich no quarantine.... that’s until I lost some 8yr old fish
I got one now

 

[andiesreef]

If you want to go into this hobby long term then you should look at proper set up and quarantine. Quarantine doesn’t just prevent ich but other diseases like velvet, brook, uronema and parasites. And no, ich does not exist everywhere. With proper quarantine you can have an ich free system and many of us have that. Also read up on disease life cycles and management as 5 days of treatment is not enough which is why your fish died. Look at proper quarantine and treatment with copper etc... lots to read and learn or you will just face heartache and throw money down the drain...

I've been reading up on ich and am going to (at the absolute minimum) catch the clown today and start treatment for 2 weeks. To clarify, I don't believe ich exists everywhere, but I think it's common in marine setups and quarantine of everything that goes in is the only way to prevent it. I don't know if the 76 days of quarantine before everything goes in is feasible for me though. However, I've read stories of people going fallow, quarantining every fish, coral, invert, etc. and still facing ich issues. I don't know if this is common or not, but I don't want that to happen in my setup. I'm so confused, as I see a lot of conflicting information on ich even though its life cycle is well understood.

 

[andiesreef]

If you want to go into this hobby long term then you should look at proper set up and quarantine. Quarantine doesn’t just prevent ich but other diseases like velvet, brook, uronema and parasites. And no, ich does not exist everywhere. With proper quarantine you can have an ich free system and many of us have that. Also read up on disease life cycles and management as 5 days of treatment is not enough which is why your fish died. Look at proper quarantine and treatment with copper etc... lots to read and learn or you will just face heartache and throw money down the drain...

So from my understanding, I should catch the clown and treat for at least 2 weeks before returning him to the system? Do I need to catch my goby too? Do I need to quarantine everything that goes in for 76 days in case ich has encysted on it?

 

[arking_mark]

There are two schools of thought on ich:
1. Ich management
2. Ich prevention

I'm for prevention and have gone fallow 3 times in my 20+ years of reefing.

Now I only buy QT'd fish.

For fish I can't get QT'd or fish I get from fellow reefers, I do TTM. TTM only takes 13 days.

My recommendation is to remove and treat all fish in your tank. Go fallow. Then only buy QT"d fish or do your own QT.

Link to Hybrid TTM:

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

Important: Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range... Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, it's weakness has...

humble.fish

 

[arking_mark]

So from my understanding, I should catch the clown and treat for at least 2 weeks before returning him to the system? Do I need to catch my goby too? Do I need to quarantine everything that goes in for 76 days in case ich has encysted on it?

If you don't go fallow, you need to do ich management as it will always be in your tank.

 

[andiesreef]

There are two schools of thought on ich:
1. Ich management
2. Ich prevention

I'm for prevention and have gone fallow 3 times in my 20+ years of reefing.

Now I only buy QT'd fish.

For fish I can't get QT'd or fish I get from fellow reefers, I do TTM. TTM only takes 13 days.

My recommendation is to remove and treat all fish in your tank. Go fallow. Then only buy QT"d fish or do your own QT.

Link to Hybrid TTM:

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

Important: Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range... Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, it's weakness has...

humble.fish

the 2 week quarantine and fallow period is completely understandable for me. do you also quarantine every snail, invert, and coral for months before they go in?

 

[andiesreef]

If you don't go fallow, you need to do ich management as it will always be in your tank.

the fallow period is something i'm probably going to do. i'm just confused on if quarantine for each invert, coral, etc for months is something that is also best practice for ich prevention?

 

[arking_mark]

the 2 week quarantine and fallow period is completely understandable for me. do you also quarantine every snail, invert, and coral for months before they go in?

I'm not that perfect...but those vectors have much lower risk in my opinion.

However, my last purchase of inverts came QT'd.

For coral, I usually replace the frag plug and dip.

 

[arking_mark]

I'm not that perfect...but those vectors have much lower risk in my opinion.

However, my last purchase of inverts came QT'd.

For coral, I usually replace the frag plug and dip.

I also maintain an observation tank...but usually only use it after TTM to make sure the fish is really eating well and all seems good.

I'm actually receiving my next batch of fish today. They came from a place that QT's all fish to a standard I'm happy with (published QT procedures). If I had the space, ideally they would go into my observation tank...but that tank is way too small. So most will be placed directly into tank with the exception of a Copper Banded Butterfly who will either go to observation or an intank acclimation box...just to make sure it's eating well.

 

[arking_mark]

I should also admit that my last Ich outbreak occurred due to cross contamination from my observation tank to my display tank. The tanks aren't 10 feet apart, but I think I may have inadvertently put my hands or equipment in both tanks.

 

[andiesreef]

ok. so i would have to

1. catch and treat clownfish and goby for 2 weeks minimum to eradicated ich on their bodies.

2. go fallow for 76 days until july 14, 2021

3. quarantine any new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks and pre-treat for ich

4. dip and replace coral frag plugs entirely whenever possible (also helps mitigate introducing aptasia, nudis, etc). i already dip and sometimes replace the plugs on all corals.

5. see if inverts can be purchased from a QTed source.

I'm not that perfect...but those vectors have much lower risk in my opinion.

However, my last purchase of inverts came QT'd.

For coral, I usually replace the frag plug and dip.

 

[arking_mark]

Sounds like a good plan. Some advocate a 45day fallow as good enough.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[andiesreef]

ok. so i would have to

1. catch and treat clownfish and goby for 2 weeks minimum to eradicated ich on their bodies.

2. go fallow for 76 days until july 14, 2021

3. quarantine any new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks and pre-treat for ich

4. dip and replace coral frag plugs entirely whenever possible (also helps mitigate introducing aptasia, nudis, etc). i already dip and sometimes replace the plugs on all corals.

5. see if inverts can be purchased from a QTed source.

Yes you are correct and need to leave tank empty of all fish (corals and inverts can remain) for 76 days minimum.
What problems are you having with anthias? A lot of them are coming in with uronema which ends up as red sores or blotches on body and they don’t survive once that shows up...

 

[andiesreef]

Sounds like a good plan. Some advocate a 45day fallow as good enough.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

i'll look further into the 45 day fallow plan. thanks for all your help. you've also said you've gone fallow 3 times, was it because the ich containment plan fell through? just trying to be the lowest-risk i can be. also, can i used cycled media in my QT?

 

[StPatrick89]

ok. so i would have to

1. catch and treat clownfish and goby for 2 weeks minimum to eradicated ich on their bodies.

2. go fallow for 76 days until july 14, 2021

3. quarantine any new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks and pre-treat for ich

4. dip and replace coral frag plugs entirely whenever possible (also helps mitigate introducing aptasia, nudis, etc). i already dip and sometimes replace the plugs on all corals.

5. see if inverts can be purchased from a QTed source.

The sad thing about all of this is that people go fallow and still get ich a week later or even 3 days later. Keep doing research on here. It’s a cluster of contradicting information. People have success quarantining and not quarantining. People quarantine and the fish die in quarantine due to stress, but they don’t tell you that. Well the honest ones do. Anyway, to answer you initial question because you have no other option than your display you’ve got two options. Lower your salinity to .009, and raise the temp in your aquarium to at least 82degrees, OR/AND try some medication that won’t hurt your corals something like Herbtana/Paraguard. Some People will say it works and some say meds don’t work. There’s so much information. You just have to TRY something. It may work and it may not. Look for failure so you can learn what you did wrong and can learn from it.