Is Ich really present in every batch of saltwater?

[jda]

Tomonts land on surfaces and can come in on rock, corals, frags, snails, etc. Theronts are in the water and can be on a droplet of water on rock, corals, frags, snails, etc. Theronts can be filtered, but there is no chance that you get them all.

The only way to make sure that you have no ich in your tank is to do thereputic copper on every fish and then have a coral and invert QT that is fishless where you made no additions while the tank goes through the fallow period. My guess is that probably less than 1% of folks actually do this. Most folks that do copper on their fish do not QT inverts or corals so they probably have ich in their tanks and the fish are just strong enough to fight it off - they just think that they are ich free. Most of the general public just roll the dice and the fish that live get immunity or are just tough.

 

[Colton Yuchnewicz]

not sure about every batch of water, but every fish i have ever bought (clowns/tangs/rabbits/ect..) have had ich or velvet.... sadly.

 

[Lavey29]

My obvious statement of the day would be:
Free-swimming (infectious) stage does enter the water column.

Whether or not it's likely that most during that stage will make it into the UV is another topic that I won't bother even guessing at.

Some do yes along with some beneficial bacteria that will get nuked but plenty of others will be attached to something so I don't see how UV eliminates ich in a tank? It doesn't do that, it may offer some element of mitigating the severity of the situation but is not a cure all.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I would be really suspicious of a 55-watt sterilizer for $100.

Some do yes along with some beneficial bacteria that will get nuked but plenty of others will be attached to something so I don't see how UV eliminates ich in a tank? It doesn't do that, it may offer some element of mitigating the severity of the situation but is not a cure all.

I am a very big skeptic when it comes to UVs. However, after some discussions and some thinking, I am going to give it a try just for anecdotal info. I had one before, 45 watt on a 220 and I feel that it did absolutely nothing. I should be getting an aqua 45-watt tomorrow for my 125-gallon system. But I agree about ich, I think it's a Hail Mary when it comes to fighting parasites.

 

[CubsFan]

I would be really suspicious of a 55-watt sterilizer for $100. Somewhere the costs were cut.

I used a similar product years ago from Amazon when I was going crazy over dinos. This one just looks slightly updated. I think if the bulb is doing what it needs to do and you’re giving it the right flow, it’s the same as a higher priced product. I had no issues with the plumbing and had no leaks.

I’m not sure if this would help with ich. I’ve never used it for that. I’m not sure how much it helped with my dinos. I was throwing everything at that. I think quitting water changes was the real solution and then dealing with easier nuisance algae. Who knows. That’s for another thread.

 

[seamonster]

I heard from a marine biologist that Ich is always in the water and that the fishes contract Ich if they are stressed or injured. Is this really true? And if Ich is present in all water then how do you prevent and eliminate that disease? Will a UV clarifier kill that disease?

The best way to avoid ich is to purchase quarantined and treated fish. However, it is nearly impossible to prevent ich entering the system. One would have to quarantine every rock, invertebrate, and coral for at least 3 months before placing it in the main display. Oh it can be done, but no one really has any time, patience or resources to really do that correctly. Even with a qt system, the clock starts over again once you put a new item in there. Now the best way to deal with ich is ich management. Feed selcon soaked food. Use garlic sparingly though. Don’t use that everyday. And just use a little garlic soak. Don’t overfeed, vacuum tank and sump and keep everything clean. Perform regular water changes and clean equipment in fresh water too. Fresh water kills ich. Stay diligent about the cleaning. Vacuuming the tank and sump removes some of the cysts. UV sterilizers work too for prevention, not eradication.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is a 55 watt UV sterilizer okay for a ten gallon tank, or is it way too overkill? I want my aquarium to be Ich free.

There is a good chance that a unit this size will heat the water up too much.

Jay

 

[Paul B]

That's not evidence that it went dorment from an infection stage.

If we need a scientific study. I invite anyone to put a fish in my tank with a disease of your choice and in 6 weeks see what happens. Then we will put that fish with the same disease in your quarantined tank and in 6 weeks, see what happens. I feel that would be a good scientific study.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

An aquarium is a closed system. The only things present are things introduced from outside that closed system (intentionally or unintentionally). Ich is a parasite that doesn't mystically appear automatically in all batches of saltwater created. It has to be introduced (just like any other life form found there). Therefore, if you have a quarantine protocol that prohibits the introduction of ich, it will not be present in your system. The converse also applies.

 

[Lavey29]

An aquarium is a closed system. The only things present are things introduced from outside that closed system (intentionally or unintentionally). Ich is a parasite that doesn't mystically appear automatically in all batches of saltwater created. It has to be introduced (just like any other life form found there). Therefore, if you have a quarantine protocol that prohibits the introduction of ich, it will not be present in your system. The converse also applies.

So how do you QT inverts or corals for ich or velvet? Can't copper them so just an observation tank for 76 days and hope any ich or velvet remnants die off? Seems full proof right....may add a level of security but certainly not full proof.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So how do you QT inverts or corals for ich or velvet? Can't copper them so just an observation tank for 76 days and hope any ich or velvet remnants die off? Seems full proof right....may add a level of security but certainly not full proof.

For invertebrates, you don’t need to hold them for a full 76 days. I’ve gone as short as 30 days if they came from tanks with healthy fish, 60 days if they came from a tank with non-quarantined fish in it.

Jay

 

[Lavey29]

For invertebrates, you don’t need to hold them for a full 76 days. I’ve gone as short as 30 days if they came from tanks with healthy fish, 60 days if they came from a tank with non-quarantined fish in it.

Jay

But Jay, absent some type of invert or coral microscopic capability is there any way to be 100% certain that 100% of the time cross contamination doesn't happen? I'm guessing No it is not full proof but adds to the prevention efforts as a best option. To many threads about fallow tanks exceeding the recommended guidelines while properly QT fish only to see ich come back once the DT gets going again.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

But Jay, absent some type of invert or coral microscopic capability is there any way to be 100% certain that 100% of the time cross contamination doesn't happen? I'm guessing No it is not full proof but adds to the prevention efforts as a best option. To many threads about fallow tanks exceeding the recommended guidelines while properly QT fish only to see ich come back once the DT gets going again.

I’ve never seen a tank that went for a full fallow period end up with ich,velvet or flukes where there wasn’t some sort of biosecurity issue. I have seen people run a full fallow, then put non quarantined fish in the tank and then say the fallow period didn’t work. I’ve also had people say they ran fallow, “except one goby I couldnt catch”.

It’s just a matter of cost versus benefit. I’m confident that I have removed 100% of the ich, velvet and flukes from my systems, but the cost is high in terms of effort. I’ve had fish in quarantine for six months before I released them. The shortest I ever do is what we outline here - so 60 days.

Jay

 

[homersimpsonlikesfish]

Can someone please explain to me why a fish doesn't have Ich at the pet store, but when you bring them home and put them in your tank they suddenly develop Ich?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Can someone please explain to me why a fish doesn't have Ich at the pet store, but when you bring them home and put them in your tank they suddenly develop Ich?

Because the fish store keeps it in a low dose of copper which masks the ich.

Post in thread 'Does ich ever just go away?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-ich-ever-just-go-away.1006693/post-11726553

 

[beesnreefs]

FWIW, I had a cryptocaryon outbreak in my 225g DT. This was confirmed both visually and with an AquaBiomics eDNA test.

I removed all the fish and placed them in a new hospital tank where they were at 2.5 ppm chelated copper for 30 days at which point copper was removed from the system.

At the same time, I increased the temp of my
DT to 81 degrees and went fallow - absolutely no new additions.

At 45 days I took a sample of both the DT and the hospital tank and ran eDNA tests again through AquaBiomics. Both tanks are now confirmed 100% ich-free.

 

[LadAShark]

I heard from a marine biologist that Ich is always in the water and that the fishes contract Ich if they are stressed or injured. Is this really true? And if Ich is present in all water then how do you prevent and eliminate that disease? Will a UV clarifier kill that disease?

This isn't true at all. Ich is pretty omnipresent, but it isn't necessarily always in the water. Ich free systems are real, possible, and doable. Look into humble fish's quarantine methodologies.

That aside, in practice you can turn around the marine biologist's statement. The goal is to keep fish healthy, if a fish is catching ich, it more than likely is stressed and is vulnerable to other things. However, this is an idealist perspective. Let me introduce you to the concept of "minimum infectious dose."

It takes a certain number of pathogens to infect any one organism, and the number needed can vary based on the pathogens' pathogenicity and on the organism's immune system/health. Consider, however, that only one fish in a system gets sick. This fish becomes a reservoir for disease, increasing the count of pathogens in the water until other fish have their immune systems' overwhelmed. This fish is also likely to act stressed and increase stress in other fish; stress causes animals to produce cortisol which inhibits (suppresses) their immune systems.

Marine biologists also usually work with more open systems, i.e. far more water changes unlike our closed systems, and usually isolate the species they are working with in a system. There is also a requirement for far more control over their systems to maintain experimental validity.

This doesn't even account for the fact it only takes marginally effort to prevent marine velvet or brooklynella from entering your system while going for an ich free system.

Long story short: ich is common; fish husbandry that prevents ich also prevents other diseases and promotes fish health so it should be maintained irrespective of ich; ich, however, can be kept out of your system entirely.

 

[homersimpsonlikesfish]

Because the fish store keeps it in a low dose of copper which masks the ich.

Post in thread 'Does ich ever just go away?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-ich-ever-just-go-away.1006693/post-11726553

Can I add copper to a tank that has live rock and a shrimp?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Can I add copper to a tank that has live rock and a shrimp?

Not if you want the shrimp to live or if you ever want inverts or coral in that tank...

 

[Pickle_soup]

Can I add copper to a tank that has live rock and a shrimp?

No, inverts do pretty poorly with copper. As for LR, it's tricky. I will absorb the copper, but then is will leach it. I use it in my qt, but it's a pain to keep the therapeutic level.